{"id":135087,"date":"2024-11-22t00:20:20","date_gmt":"2024-11-22t05:20:20","guid":{"rendered":"\/\/www.g005e.com\/?p=135087"},"modified":"2024-11-24t11:47:28","modified_gmt":"2024-11-24t16:47:28","slug":"jean-caragher-unlocking-the-secrets-to-smart-growth-with-alan-whitman-gear-up-for-growth","status":"publish","type":"post","link":"\/\/www.g005e.com\/2024\/11\/22\/jean-caragher-unlocking-the-secrets-to-smart-growth-with-alan-whitman-gear-up-for-growth\/","title":{"rendered":"alan whitman: unlocking the secrets to smart growth | gear up for growth"},"content":{"rendered":"<p><strong>&#8220;speed and being nimble are critical to being able to try new things and iterate quickly.&#8221;<\/strong><\/p>\n<div style=\"padding: 56.25% 0 0 0; position: relative;\"><iframe style=\"position: absolute; top: 0; left: 0; width: 100%; height: 100%;\" title=\"unlocking the secrets to smart growth with alan whitman | gear up for growth\" src=\"https:\/\/player.vimeo.com\/video\/1023757752?h=2a741a61b3&amp;autoplay=1&amp;&amp;muted=1&amp;loop=1&amp;autopause=0&amp;player_id=0&amp;app_id=58479\" frameborder=\"0\"><span data-mce-type=\"bookmark\" style=\"display: inline-block; width: 0px; overflow: hidden; line-height: 0;\" class=\"mce_selres_start\">?<\/span><\/iframe><\/div>\n<div>\n<h6 style=\"text-align: center;\"><span class=\"ac-designer-copy\">click to subscribe anywhere: <\/span><a class=\"ac-designer-copy external\" href=\"https:\/\/cpa.click\/apple-podcasts\" target=\"_blank\" rel=\"noopener\" data-ac-default-color=\"1\">apple<\/a><span class=\"ac-designer-copy\">,\u00a0<\/span><a class=\"ac-designer-copy external\" href=\"https:\/\/cpa.click\/youtube-podcasts\" target=\"_blank\" rel=\"noopener\" data-ac-default-color=\"1\">google\/youtube<\/a><span class=\"ac-designer-copy\">,\u00a0<\/span><a class=\"ac-designer-copy external\" href=\"https:\/\/cpa.click\/spotify\" target=\"_blank\" rel=\"noopener\" 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href=\"https:\/\/cpa.click\/audacy\" target=\"_blank\" rel=\"noopener\" data-ac-default-color=\"1\">audacy<\/a><span class=\"ac-designer-copy\">,\u00a0<\/span><a class=\"ac-designer-copy external\" href=\"https:\/\/cpa.click\/gaana\" target=\"_blank\" rel=\"noopener\" data-ac-default-color=\"1\">gaana (india)<\/a><span class=\"ac-designer-copy\">,\u00a0<\/span><a class=\"ac-designer-copy external\" href=\"https:\/\/cpa.click\/boomplay\" target=\"_blank\" rel=\"noopener\" data-ac-default-color=\"1\">boomplay (africa)<\/a><span class=\"ac-designer-copy\">, or\u00a0<\/span><a class=\"ac-designer-copy external\" href=\"https:\/\/cpatrendlines.podomatic.com\/rss2.xml\" target=\"_blank\" rel=\"noopener\" data-ac-default-color=\"1\">rss<\/a><span class=\"ac-designer-copy\">.\u00a0<\/span><\/h6>\n<p><iframe loading=\"lazy\" style=\"border: none; height: 205px; width: 100%;\" src=\"https:\/\/www.podomatic.com\/embed\/v2\/podcast\/5781641?episode_id=10821337&amp;theme=dark\" width=\"100%\" height=\"205\" frameborder=\"0\"><\/iframe><br \/>\n<strong><em>gear up for growth<a href=\"\/\/www.g005e.com\/tag\/gear-up-for-growth\/\"><img loading=\"lazy\" decoding=\"async\" class=\"alignright wp-image-134404\" src=\"\/\/www.g005e.com\/wp-content\/uploads\/2024\/10\/mitch-reno_-client-experience-advantage-goes-to-small-firms-_-gear-up-for-growth-low-1.gif\" alt=\"\" width=\"250\" height=\"140\" \/><\/a><\/em><\/strong><em><br \/>\nwith jean caragher<br \/>\nfor 卡塔尔世界杯常规比赛时间<\/em><\/p>\n<\/div>\n<div>\n<p>alan whitman, ceo of adw advisory, formerly led baker tilly u.s. through a meteoric rise from $475 million to $1.5 billion in revenue. in this episode of gear up for growth, he shares his wealth of experience and insights.<\/p>\n<\/div>\n<blockquote><p><strong>see alan whitman on the disruptors:<\/strong> <a href=\"\/\/www.g005e.com\/2024\/09\/10\/alan-whitman-stop-accepting-the-status-quo-the-disruptors\/\">stop accepting the status quo<\/a><\/p>\n<p><strong>gear up for growth<\/strong> spotlights the best strategies for smart and effficient growth in today&#8217;s competitive landscape. <strong>more<\/strong>\u00a0<a style=\"background-color: #ffffff;\" href=\"\/\/www.g005e.com\/tag\/gear-up-for-growth\/\">gear up for growth every friday here.<\/a>|\u00a0 <strong>more<\/strong>\u00a0<a style=\"background-color: #ffffff;\" href=\"\/\/www.g005e.com\/tag\/capstone-conversations\/\">capstone conversations with jean caragher every monday<\/a> | <strong>more<\/strong>\u00a0<a style=\"background-color: #ffffff;\" href=\"\/\/www.g005e.com\/author\/jean-caragher\/\">jean caragher here<\/a> |\u00a0get her best-selling handbook, <a style=\"background-color: #ffffff;\" href=\"\/\/www.g005e.com\/shop\/the-90-day-marketing-plan-for-cpa-firms\/\">the 90-day marketing plan for cpa firms, here<\/a> | <strong>more<\/strong> <a style=\"background-color: #ffffff;\" href=\"\/\/www.g005e.com\/category\/podcast,video\/\">卡塔尔世界杯常规比赛时间 videos and podcasts here<\/a><\/p><\/blockquote>\n<div>\n<p>one of the central themes of the conversation is the potential for smaller cpa firms to outpace their larger counterparts in innovation and agility. whitman highlights the advantages small firms have, such as their ability to pivot quickly and try new approaches without the bureaucratic hurdles larger organizations face. \u201cspeed and being nimble are critical,\u201d whitman asserts. however, he notes that smaller firms must adopt a forward-thinking mindset, emphasizing, \u201chopefully, smaller firms aren\u2019t biased by always doing it the way you\u2019ve done it in the past.\u201d<\/p>\n<\/div>\n<p><!--more--><\/p>\n<p>caragher steers the discussion toward leadership, asking whitman whether leading a small firm requires different skills than leading a larger one. whitman explains that while experiences shape the skills of leaders in firms of varying sizes, the ability to galvanize a team around a shared vision is universal. for smaller firms, leaders often wear multiple hats, including client service, making their role uniquely demanding yet full of potential.<\/p>\n<p>drawing from his tenure at baker tilly, whitman shares his strategy for fostering growth through what he terms \u201cengines.\u201d these engines\u2014systems designed to generate leads, drive client engagement, and maintain a firm\u2019s strategic focus\u2014are scalable and relevant for firms of any size. from webinars to digital marketing, whitman emphasizes the importance of leveraging technology and focused messaging to stand out in a crowded marketplace.<\/p>\n<p>for small firms looking to grow strategically, whitman underscores the need for specialization. \u201creally understanding the business of your client\u2019s business, not just the numbers, is critical,\u201d he explains. whether it\u2019s niche industries or advisory services, developing a truly differentiated offering is a game-changer.<\/p>\n<p>whitman observes that many small firms lack a well-defined and documented strategy, a critical gap that hinders sustainable growth. without a clear plan, firms often fall into the trap of chasing revenue indiscriminately. \u201call growth isn\u2019t strategic growth,\u201d he cautions. instead, firms need to define their ideal client, focus their resources, and align their services with their long-term goals.<\/p>\n<div>\n<div style=\"padding-left: 40px;\">\n<p>&nbsp;<\/p>\n<figure id=\"attachment_135998\" class=\"thumbnail wp-caption alignright\" style=\"width: 200px\"><img loading=\"lazy\" decoding=\"async\" class=\"wp-image-135998\" src=\"\/\/www.g005e.com\/wp-content\/uploads\/2024\/11\/alan-whitman-2024-headshot.png\" alt=\"\" width=\"200\" height=\"273\" srcset=\"\/\/www.g005e.com\/wp-content\/uploads\/2024\/11\/alan-whitman-2024-headshot.png 528w, \/\/www.g005e.com\/wp-content\/uploads\/2024\/11\/alan-whitman-2024-headshot-424x578.png 424w, \/\/www.g005e.com\/wp-content\/uploads\/2024\/11\/alan-whitman-2024-headshot-300x409.png 300w\" sizes=\"auto, (max-width: 200px) 100vw, 200px\" \/><figcaption class=\"caption wp-caption-text\">whitman<\/figcaption><\/figure>\n<p><em><strong>about alan whitman, cpa<\/strong><\/em><\/p>\n<p><em>during alan whitman\u2019s time as ceo of baker tilly us, the firm tripled its size, expanded into 15 new domestic markets, and successfully integrated more than 20 domestic and international organizations through merger and acquisition. he is now ceo of adw advisory where he serves as a strategy and growth advisor to help professional services firms create alignment and build intentional strategies to enable scaling.<\/em><\/p>\n<\/div>\n<\/div>\n<div><\/div>\n<div><strong>transcript<br \/>\n<\/strong>(produced by automation. not edited for spelling or grammar.)<\/div>\n<p><span data-contrast=\"none\"><br \/>\njean: hello, and thank you for joining &#8220;gear up for growth,&#8221; powered by 卡塔尔世界杯常规比赛时间. i&#8217;m jean caragher, president of capstone marketing and your host. this episode is focused on how small firms can compete in the future. our guest is alan whitman, ceo of adw advisory, where he serves as an advisor and coach to ceos and leadership teams. prior to that, alan was the ceo of baker tilly, u.s., from 2015 to 2023 during which time the firm grew from 475 million to 1.5 billion, and we&#8217;re going to talk about that and how small firms can, you know, translate that success, alan, that you achieved at baker tilly. so, alan, welcome to &#8220;gear up for growth.&#8221;<\/span><span data-ccp-props=\"{&quot;335559738&quot;:200,&quot;335559739&quot;:200}\">\u00a0<\/span><\/p>\n<p><span data-contrast=\"none\">alan: well, thank you, jean. it&#8217;s great to be with you and look forward to our time together today.<\/span><span data-ccp-props=\"{&quot;335559738&quot;:200,&quot;335559739&quot;:200}\">\u00a0<\/span><\/p>\n<p><span data-contrast=\"none\">jean: yes, me too. so i know that we would both agree that there are many challenges to operating a cpa firm when you think about staff, recruiting and retention, client acquisition and retention, technology, m&amp;a, private equity. we could go on and on and on, right? so i know that in your talks about the firm of the future that you believe that smaller firms are better positioned to innovate and transform in the ways that firms will need to in order to thrive in the future and in the accounting profession. can you speak to us a bit about your thoughts there of what makes those smaller firms that are positioned to innovate and transform.<\/span><span data-ccp-props=\"{&quot;335559738&quot;:200,&quot;335559739&quot;:200}\">\u00a0<\/span><\/p>\n<p><span data-contrast=\"none\">alan: jean, it&#8217;s interesting your introduction there, of all the things that we, being cpa firms in the profession, are challenged with. i&#8217;m not so sure, but i don&#8217;t think i heard anything with vis-\u00e0-vis clients. and really, we should all be looking outside in versus inside out, however or and i agree with what you said, there&#8217;s many challenges to running a professional services organization or company, however you wanna refer to it. and they&#8217;re not getting any easier, and things are moving faster, and your comment about innovating is something i speak to, if not many, all, many of my clients. look, i think that speed and being nimble is critical to being able to try new things and to iterate quickly, learn fast. some people say fail fast but learn fast. and oftentimes, larger organizations get stuck in the rut of moving a battleship versus moving a rowboat, and it takes some time. and there&#8217;s wonderful things about organizations that have scaled, and as i like to say, companies that have scaled or scaled organization gives you many things, two of which being intellectual capital and financial capital. meaning you do end up making more money because you&#8217;ve got a broader organization from which to generate revenue and their synergies from a cost savings perspective. and then intellectual capital, which means there&#8217;s more heads around the table to try new things.<\/span><span data-ccp-props=\"{&quot;335559738&quot;:200,&quot;335559739&quot;:200}\">\u00a0<\/span><\/p>\n<p><span data-contrast=\"none\">having said all that, as you get larger, you do slow down a bit. there is, whether it&#8217;s bureaucracy, whether it&#8217;s focusing on the past, what have you, things do slow down. now, while i do think that smaller companies have a better chance, that&#8217;s not to say that it&#8217;s a either or, meaning you&#8217;re either small and can innovate, or you&#8217;re large and you can&#8217;t. the smaller firms also need to have a different mindset vis-a-vis trying new things, etc. hopefully, smaller firms aren&#8217;t biased by always doing it the way you&#8217;ve done it in the past. i was corrected by a young man who started in his own firm, and he challenged me when i said, &#8220;look, the larger firms can do things quicker.&#8221; and he challenged and said, &#8220;no, i don&#8217;t believe they can innovate better because there are just so many things that need to be considered.&#8221; so many stakeholders in an organization of size, rather than 1 or 2, 20, or 30. there&#8217;s just less people you need to get on board. now, at the same time, smaller firms may be more nervous. maybe their risk tolerance is not as great as other organizations because they&#8217;re worried about what they&#8217;re gonna lose versus what they&#8217;re gonna get. so it&#8217;s not a, you know, yes, no question. however, i have seen the smaller organizations that i consult with being able to pivot and leave a point of view quicker than the larger firms that i consult with.<\/span><span data-ccp-props=\"{&quot;335559738&quot;:200,&quot;335559739&quot;:200}\">\u00a0<\/span><\/p>\n<p><span data-contrast=\"none\">jean: right. so then let me ask you, because i agree with you. leaders in smaller firms, they can really make things happen if they&#8217;re the right leader and are willing to take on some risks. so let me ask you about leadership. do managing partners or ceos in smaller firms, do they have different skills than managing partners of larger firms, or is it the size of the firm doesn&#8217;t matter, but the managing partner does need to be able to gather the team around the table and move forward?<\/span><span data-ccp-props=\"{&quot;335559738&quot;:200,&quot;335559739&quot;:200}\">\u00a0<\/span><\/p>\n<p><span data-contrast=\"none\">alan: well, certainly leadership skills in smaller organizations, those that are necessary might be different than those of a larger organization. are they different? well, i would say that leaders of large organizations are gonna be presented with challenges that leaders of smaller organizations won&#8217;t have seen. and so as a result, they&#8217;re gonna develop skills that maybe the smaller firm ceos haven&#8217;t developed because they haven&#8217;t been confronted with these other situations, whatever they are. you know, smaller firms aren&#8217;t gonna acquire companies as quickly or as steadily as large organizations. you know, in my tenure as ceo, we did 20-some-odd acquisitions, mergers, and we did most of them in the last five years of my tenure. smaller firms, there are a lot of firms out there that have never done one merger. so i&#8217;ve got skills that they don&#8217;t, doesn&#8217;t mean they don&#8217;t have the potential to learn those skills. so it&#8217;s based on experiences.<\/span><span data-ccp-props=\"{&quot;335559738&quot;:200,&quot;335559739&quot;:200}\">\u00a0<\/span><\/p>\n<p><span data-contrast=\"none\">i think that, again, as a ceo of a skilled organization, i wasn&#8217;t serving clients. ceos of smaller firms still serve clients. so yes, there are different skills that are necessary to move a more cohesive one office organization, as opposed to a multi office organization or a global organization. while i say that, i don&#8217;t think one is better than the other. i think they&#8217;re just different, and they&#8217;re made for purpose. and, you know, there&#8217;s quite a number of ceos that i&#8217;m consulting with one now, who was the ceo when they were sub 100 million and now, they&#8217;re a multi $100 million organization. and so that ceo has had to learn as the person has gone and as the firm has progressed and so my advice is, learn from those that have come before you and learn from those outside of your organization.<\/span><span data-ccp-props=\"{&quot;335559738&quot;:200,&quot;335559739&quot;:200}\">\u00a0<\/span><\/p>\n<p><span data-contrast=\"none\">jean: right. absolutely. now, one of your five keys to building a firm that thrives you describe is a well-defined, documented and distributed strategy. i&#8217;m interested in your experience with firms with or without a strategic plan, and i&#8217;m gonna think you&#8217;re gonna tell me that you know of more that do not have that strategic plan than those who do. and why do you think cpas are resistant to creating and executing a plan?<\/span><span data-ccp-props=\"{&quot;335559738&quot;:200,&quot;335559739&quot;:200}\">\u00a0<\/span><\/p>\n<p><span data-contrast=\"none\">alan: so you&#8217;re right. i have seen a number of firms that have less of a specific strategy. i can only guess at why that is based on experience. it&#8217;s smaller organizations or less sophisticated organizations are accumulators. and by that, i mean they&#8217;re accumulating clients. no matter what the client is, every dollar is a good dollar. if i add another individual tax return after i&#8217;ve got so many it drops to the bottom line. it&#8217;s just additional, you know, earnings. okay, that might mathematically be correct. i wrote something earlier, a couple weeks ago, that said that growth rate isn&#8217;t the only, isn&#8217;t automatically the sign of a healthy, sustainable organization. look, you can grow organically in every one-stop light town, or every city without a strategy, and then you come to look at the organization, and there&#8217;s really no strategy. there&#8217;s no rhyme or reason behind it. its accumulated clientele. and the question that an investor would look at, or evaluator would look at is, is it sustainable? is it defendable? and so all growth isn&#8217;t strategic growth.<\/span><span data-ccp-props=\"{&quot;335559738&quot;:200,&quot;335559739&quot;:200}\">\u00a0<\/span><\/p>\n<p><span data-contrast=\"none\">and so as i looked at smaller organizations, i&#8217;ve seen that they are all about revenue and selling more hours, let&#8217;s say, or selling more projects, regardless of whether they align to a strategy or not. here&#8217;s an example in point, i was talking with one of my clients this morning, a smaller organization, and we talked about where in the market do they wanna play? and so we were trying to define the ideal client by revenue size. and we talked about whether that&#8217;s really the right way to go about it, but let&#8217;s just assume that that is for a second. and so we were looking at companies, you know, i don&#8217;t know, north of $700 million as potential clients, $700 million to a couple billion. and wise, well, they&#8217;re larger projects. they can afford to pay us. that&#8217;s interesting. and then the ceo said, &#8220;but we&#8217;re not gonna walk past a smaller opportunity.&#8221; and i stopped, and i was talking with this individual. i said, &#8220;well, let&#8217;s unpack that. what do you mean, we&#8217;re not gonna walk past another opportunity?&#8221; that means we don&#8217;t have a strategy. we really do need to organize the market, the addressable market, so that we know the types of messaging, the types of strategies, the personnel. it&#8217;s no different than when i was ceo of baker tilly, we had the large company projects, or the project base, and those listed companies, the public company audits, and the multinational companies. that took a different skill and a different market approach than the smaller, middle market clientele. it was a totally different part of the organization, and you need to have strategies for both.<\/span><span data-ccp-props=\"{&quot;335559738&quot;:200,&quot;335559739&quot;:200}\">\u00a0<\/span><\/p>\n<p><span data-contrast=\"none\">and so simply trying to sell the next project without knowing where it fits into your strategy and or doesn&#8217;t, in my mind, is less effective and in the long-term, will cause problems. so i think it&#8217;s fomo that&#8217;s part of it, fear of missing out, right? it&#8217;s fear of not growing. i mean, and frankly, a lot of people that i&#8217;ve come in contact with don&#8217;t understand what a strategy is. they confuse strategy with strategic plan. one is a plan. one is the how. the former is the what. where are we gonna play? what&#8217;s our customer base? what sectors? what is our value proposition? what is it that we want to build? listen, you read a book from the first page to the last page. you run a company last page to first page, meaning, where is it that we&#8217;re going to be in five years, and what are the transformational leaps we need to take to get there? and that&#8217;s very hard in the accounting world.<\/span><span data-ccp-props=\"{&quot;335559738&quot;:200,&quot;335559739&quot;:200}\">\u00a0<\/span><\/p>\n<p><span data-contrast=\"none\">last comment, and then i&#8217;ll pass it back to you. that&#8217;s very hard in a structured reporting time period fashion, whether it&#8217;s the quarterly reporting that public companies do, or it&#8217;s the typical 12 month cycle. at the end of the year, you add everything up, you file your tax return sometime the next year, you divvy up the profits, etc. i was always heard or people knew me to say, &#8220;if i could figure out a way to get rid of the annual cycle and do it every two or three years, i would try that because 12 months, while it seems like a lot, it&#8217;s not very long.&#8221; and the problem is, people go, they race to the finish line. and then they take a breath, they race to the next finish line. i mean, read sinek&#8217;s book &#8220;the infinite game.&#8221; that doesn&#8217;t talk about quarters and halves and games. it talks about continuing to move on. so why are we so dependent upon a reporting time frame? the only reason we are, is because of taxes, or an audit, you know and so, anyway. a little crazy talk by me.<\/span><span data-ccp-props=\"{&quot;335559738&quot;:200,&quot;335559739&quot;:200}\">\u00a0<\/span><\/p>\n<p><span data-contrast=\"none\">jean: yeah, yeah. i&#8217;ve had the opportunity to interview david meister a couple of times in my career. i asked him a similar question about cpas&#8217; aversion to creating and executing plans. and his response to me was that it&#8217;s not just cpas. that people, in general, shy away from having written plans because it makes them more accountable, and it&#8217;s hard. that expectations of each other are different because you have it in writing and it&#8217;s out there, and everybody knows the expectations, but it comes to that magic word accountability. what do you think about that?<\/span><span data-ccp-props=\"{&quot;335559738&quot;:200,&quot;335559739&quot;:200}\">\u00a0<\/span><\/p>\n<p><span data-contrast=\"none\">alan: well, i understand that, and i really don&#8217;t like the word accountability. and here&#8217;s why. i understand it. here&#8217;s why. accountability, to me, is the last thing. it&#8217;s not the first thing. it&#8217;s the last thing. accountability to me is like a half empty word. the word i like to use, and i remember the day i used it. i remember the day i used it in front of i don&#8217;t know 400 and some odd partners in one of my in-person addresses, partner meetings at baker tilly. i said, &#8220;listen, i don&#8217;t know whether you&#8217;re accountable or not. of course, in the day you&#8217;re accountable to things, right? but let&#8217;s change it to you&#8217;re responsible.&#8221; you&#8217;re responsible to execute this. to me, responsibility, responsible is a half-full term, and accountable is a negative term, because the only reason that accountability is used is, well, you&#8217;re accountable so you&#8217;re gonna make less because you didn&#8217;t achieve your goals. you&#8217;re accountable for that. and so, to me, it depicts what you&#8217;re not gonna get versus what you&#8217;re here to achieve.<\/span><span data-ccp-props=\"{&quot;335559738&quot;:200,&quot;335559739&quot;:200}\">\u00a0<\/span><\/p>\n<p><span data-contrast=\"none\">jean: that&#8217;s such an interesting spin on those words, because, as you said, that i&#8217;m hearing that responsible is a positive word and something that a person, it&#8217;s clear to them of what they&#8217;re expected to do. whereas accountable, and i&#8217;ve never thought about it this way, accountable is a negative word, because it would make a person feel like, oh, gosh, you know, dad&#8217;s gonna come around and see what i&#8217;ve been doing, and he&#8217;s gonna look at my reports and client satisfaction levels, and you know, all these other measurements, you know that a firm can take. that&#8217;s a key takeaway for me. i hope it is for the rest of our listeners and viewers because i think that was fantastic.<\/span><span data-ccp-props=\"{&quot;335559738&quot;:200,&quot;335559739&quot;:200}\">\u00a0<\/span><\/p>\n<p><span data-contrast=\"none\">alan: well, thank you. so let me just add one more thing to your comment that meister&#8217;s comment about plans and accountable, etc. and i understand what he&#8217;s saying and who am i to say that he doesn&#8217;t have it right, given all that he&#8217;s done in his career. having said that, maybe a little tweak from a short guy from cincinnati, you know, that grew up in cincinnati, ohio. cincinnati is a great one place for all of you cincinnatians. anyhow, look, i think that in the accounting space, and he&#8217;s right, it&#8217;s not just accounting, it&#8217;s everywhere. when you look at plans in the accounting space, the firms are by and large their lifestyle practices, lifestyle firms. and it&#8217;s not that they&#8217;re not serious. it&#8217;s not that they&#8217;re doing it just to, you know, buy a car or what have you. that&#8217;s not the lifestyle i&#8217;m talking about. what i&#8217;m saying is firms, they set a plan, whatever the plan is, and if they don&#8217;t achieve it, we didn&#8217;t achieve it, we&#8217;ll try again next year. we&#8217;ll set a new plan next year. as opposed to, no, we&#8217;re actually gonna run a business. we&#8217;re not gonna run a firm. we&#8217;re gonna run a business and there&#8217;s ramifications, if you will, there&#8217;s results of the results, right? and or results to the results. and that&#8217;s a hard thing for people, and this is a responsible, accountable thing. that&#8217;s a hard thing for people to swallow.<\/span><span data-ccp-props=\"{&quot;335559738&quot;:200,&quot;335559739&quot;:200}\">\u00a0<\/span><\/p>\n<p><span data-contrast=\"none\">look, most of the professions, the people in the professions, law, accounting, what have you. they didn&#8217;t go into practices to run a business. they go into practice to serve clients, and if the business is part of it, so be it. but they&#8217;re not there to run&#8230; that&#8217;s why people always say, well, the accountants, like the shoe cobbler&#8217;s son, the accountants are the worst at billing and collecting. they&#8217;re just the worst, even though they advise their clients. they&#8217;re the worst at billing the right fee. so anyway, i think that&#8217;s another aspect of why it&#8217;s difficult, at least in the cpa space or the legal space that we see.<\/span><span data-ccp-props=\"{&quot;335559738&quot;:200,&quot;335559739&quot;:200}\">\u00a0<\/span><\/p>\n<p><span data-contrast=\"none\">jean: right. alan koltin had a great quote in our episode. we were talking about firms remaining independent, and of course, we talked a bit about private equity. and i&#8217;m not gonna remember the quote exactly, but, you know, his thought was like, &#8220;hey, how about we run this firm like a business, right? we&#8217;re growing, collecting money, we&#8217;re challenging each other.&#8221; all the other things he added to that. and the fact that you just said the same thing because that relates to, and i don&#8217;t spend too long on private equity, but that is something that the smaller firms really do need to face if they are in the market for pe funding.<\/span><span data-ccp-props=\"{&quot;335559738&quot;:200,&quot;335559739&quot;:200}\">\u00a0<\/span><\/p>\n<p><span data-contrast=\"none\">alan: well, first of all, it&#8217;s nice that alan is repeating that comment because i think he might have gotten that from me. we&#8217;ll see if i get a note from him. see if he listens to this but it&#8217;s nice that he&#8217;s repeating what i&#8217;m saying. anyhow, look, you know, it&#8217;s interesting we&#8217;re blaming pe for all these things, right? they got a bad rap. let&#8217;s just move that aside for a second, right? uber bright, uber insightful, uber everything. they&#8217;re just really top-notch professionals. just because you have an outside party or a financier, that&#8217;s not the only reason to run anything as a business. i&#8217;d like to think that baker tilly, going from 475 to a billion five, ran the organization as a business. i know there&#8217;s a lot that don&#8217;t, but i wouldn&#8217;t wanna associate this business thing solely to pe. now, at the same time, they&#8217;re going to a private equity firm, or a financial sponsor is going to bring a much different way of looking at the business or the firm. that&#8217;s wonderful. that&#8217;s wonderful. but i wouldn&#8217;t wanna, i don&#8217;t know, i just have a hard time when people thrust these comments, and it&#8217;s not what you said. i&#8217;ve heard this from many people, you know, on to pe, &#8220;well, you&#8217;re ready to run it as a business. go to pe.&#8221; well, okay, i don&#8217;t know. that&#8217;s a bad, that&#8217;s an unfair rap, i think.<\/span><span data-ccp-props=\"{&quot;335559738&quot;:200,&quot;335559739&quot;:200}\">\u00a0<\/span><\/p>\n<p><span data-contrast=\"none\">jean: right. yeah, right. so what i&#8217;m hearing is that regardless of the situation of whether you&#8217;re in the pe market or not, it&#8217;s a very smart idea to run your firm like a business, right?<\/span><span data-ccp-props=\"{&quot;335559738&quot;:200,&quot;335559739&quot;:200}\">\u00a0<\/span><\/p>\n<p><span data-contrast=\"none\">alan: well, right.<\/span><span data-ccp-props=\"{&quot;335559738&quot;:200,&quot;335559739&quot;:200}\">\u00a0<\/span><\/p>\n<p><span data-contrast=\"none\">jean: because it&#8217;s going to enhance all those positive things, right? your profitability and on and on, right? so let me get a little bit more specific into growth for the smaller firms. obviously, baker tilly, when you were ceo, started as a really big firm and just became an even bigger, bigger firm. what was the most successful growth strategy at baker tilly that smaller firms could translate to their own growth?<\/span><span data-ccp-props=\"{&quot;335559738&quot;:200,&quot;335559739&quot;:200}\">\u00a0<\/span><\/p>\n<p><span data-contrast=\"none\">alan: yeah, great question. and, you know, one of the misnomers about a firm like baker tilly, or a firm like maybe even an rsm or a bdo is they&#8217;re by and large, made up of small practices. the firm in houston that we brought in was $11 million. the firm in seattle was $20 million. so those are, in their own right, smaller firms, yet they&#8217;re part of a large conglomerate, if you will. so it&#8217;s made up of, you know, there&#8217;s a lot of parts in baker tilly. you add it all together, it was big, but there were 25, you know, we brought one in a million, because it was a niche service. so a lot of small stuff gets together, you know, and there were 600 partners at the end. so anyhow, now we pulled it all together with a strategy, so it all worked. now, to your question. i was talking with joe adams, who was retired as the ceo of rsm a couple of years ago, and i was amazed at the growth that they were having, organic growth. and i asked joe, i said, &#8220;joe, why?&#8221; and he said, &#8220;alan, when you get to our size, you&#8217;re able to build engines, and the engines are like diesel engines they work in the background.&#8221; and i&#8217;m like, &#8220;wow, that&#8217;s really insightful.&#8221; i hadn&#8217;t thought about it that way. and so then i took his engine concept, and i said, &#8220;you know what? our engines are gonna do things with the partners, for the partners, and in certain instances, despite the partners.&#8221;<\/span><span data-ccp-props=\"{&quot;335559738&quot;:200,&quot;335559739&quot;:200}\">\u00a0<\/span><\/p>\n<p><span data-contrast=\"none\">look, and let&#8217;s talk about a growth engine. for the partners, look, partners are serving clients. so you need things that happen behind the scenes for them. so when they&#8217;re talking about a merger or acquisition or state plan, there are things happening. with the partners it enables the partner to do or the senior person to sell, or not to sell, but to promote a service, or to connect with a client real-time. and then, in spite, you know, look, there are technicians. there are people that just are not sales engines, or they&#8217;re not even client service engines. they&#8217;re technicians, which are, you know, subject matter, which are wonderful. so we&#8217;re gonna do things because everybody&#8217;s gotta be rowing in, you know, the same direction with the boat. so i think that you can take that to a smaller firm. i was talking to a firm that is less than one-tenth the size of baker tilly. actually, i&#8217;m talking about another one that&#8217;s about the 10th of baker tilly. and we talked about engines. we talked about getting really specific and intentional about where you&#8217;re gonna head, where you&#8217;re gonna focus, what you&#8217;re gonna try to build in the marketplace, and then build the engine that does things with or despite, or in spite. and can you do that when you&#8217;re smaller? of course, you can. you can use digital marketing. you can use marketing activities or sales activities. you can do social media technology outreach, etc., as a smaller firm, of course, you can. there&#8217;s no question about it. and there are people in these smaller firms that are every bit as talented as the people in the larger firms.<\/span><span data-ccp-props=\"{&quot;335559738&quot;:200,&quot;335559739&quot;:200}\">\u00a0<\/span><\/p>\n<p><span data-contrast=\"none\">so now perception in the marketplaces you&#8217;d have to contend with, right? there&#8217;s that saying, &#8220;nobody gets fired for picking the big four,&#8221; right? so when you&#8217;re talking about a 20, nobody will get fired for picking a, you know, a cohnreznick compared to a $20 million firm, right? however, you can build that engine, and that&#8217;s the one thing so that it&#8217;s happening regardless of what&#8217;s going on in the organization. because look, with deadlines, with client requirements, the immediate does sometimes need to take precedence over the important. and you should have an engine to make sure the important continues to be pushed forward otherwise, you&#8217;ll wake up three months later and say, &#8220;whoa, we have no pipeline. whoa, we gotta figure where to go talk to.&#8221; so building that engine of growth is critical, and i believe you can do it regardless of size.<\/span><span data-ccp-props=\"{&quot;335559738&quot;:200,&quot;335559739&quot;:200}\">\u00a0<\/span><\/p>\n<p><span data-contrast=\"none\">jean: right. and i agree completely with you. but let me rephrase the question. that was a great explanation about the engines of just how all this could work. but when you think about the various ways that you can generate leads and acquire business relationships, networking, webinar, i&#8217;m talking more tactically. was there one at baker tilly that as you tracked the business coming in and where it came from, was there one that really outperformed others?<\/span><span data-ccp-props=\"{&quot;335559738&quot;:200,&quot;335559739&quot;:200}\">\u00a0<\/span><\/p>\n<p><span data-contrast=\"none\">alan: jean, i did find that webinars were very valuable. it got people to your audience, to bring them into your home, to deliver your subject matter expertise. we found that webinars and subject matter expertise delivery was really, really additive. look, when you&#8217;re in, here, i&#8217;m in michigan. when i was the managing partner of the michigan practice, before i became ceo, i was leading a $20 million practice, something like that. and down the street is this wonderful firm, plante moran. and plante moran has like, 9,000 people or not 9,000 but they got a lot of people. and so every time you go to a chicken dinner or a chicken lunch, there&#8217;s one of me, and there&#8217;s 10 of them. i mean, i came to a gunfight with a knife or a butter knife, you know, i just had no chance. so listen, you gotta go where others aren&#8217;t, and bring people into your living room to experience your organization, whereby you can then deliver your message that&#8217;s critical. people get inundated with newsletters and emails, etc. getting them to get on your playing field, that is critical.<\/span><span data-ccp-props=\"{&quot;335559738&quot;:200,&quot;335559739&quot;:200}\">\u00a0<\/span><\/p>\n<p><span data-contrast=\"none\">jean: right. and again, i agree with you completely. and i also believe that firms that are niched have such a greater opportunity for growth because they&#8217;re more focused on specific areas. and again, another one of your five keys, you know, for firm you talked about what you call the truly differentiated solution or offer in the marketplace. so can you talk to us for a minute about the importance of developing services beyond compliance that, you know, let&#8217;s face it, for decades, we&#8217;ve been talking about cpas becoming more advisory. and we&#8217;re still talking about that, and we&#8217;re seeing some great examples, and we see, you know, some examples that aren&#8217;t so great. so can you talk to us just a bit about service developments and how that plays into that growth engine, if you will?<\/span><span data-ccp-props=\"{&quot;335559738&quot;:200,&quot;335559739&quot;:200}\">\u00a0<\/span><\/p>\n<p><span data-contrast=\"none\">alan: yeah, sure. great point. look, when i first started my career, many of us were generalists. we did a little bit of everything. and as regulation got more complicated, and as the world sped up, and as more competitors came into the marketplace, you found yourself having to specialize, whether it&#8217;s industry specialization, whether it&#8217;s service specialization, etc. so as opposed to doing all this, you&#8217;re doing this, and then you do this. and i know that that&#8217;s been a struggle for many of us older people because we didn&#8217;t grow up that way, while at the same time, i recognize that it&#8217;s very, very appropriate. look, i think that niche firms have an advantage because you&#8217;re all in on this service. i also think that even the larger firms are specializing, vis-\u00e0-vis sector or industry and that&#8217;s a differentiator. you know, really understanding the business of your client&#8217;s business, not the numbers of your clients business, is critical, right? you know, i have a friend, a former colleague, who built a real estate outsourced accounting practice, not just an outsource accounting practice, but a real estate outsourced accounting practice. and that was differentiated because he knew exactly who he was going after. the conversations were the same. he talked about their issues. he knew their challenges. and so i agree that even the smaller companies, smaller firms, need to invest in specialization.<\/span><span data-ccp-props=\"{&quot;335559738&quot;:200,&quot;335559739&quot;:200}\">\u00a0<\/span><\/p>\n<p><span data-contrast=\"none\">now, you took it a stage further and said advisory. okay, i agree with that. i agree. and you said we&#8217;ve been talking about it for 20 years. well, then, it must be true because it&#8217;s not a fad, it&#8217;s a reality. look, i think there&#8217;s many different ways to specialize. there&#8217;s a way to specialize from a service perspective, and there&#8217;s a way to specialize from an industry perspective. and being able to talk to a pickle manufacturer versus a distribution specialist, or a retail company, or a hospitality company. being able to talk about the issues at hand there, even if you&#8217;re an audit specialist, or a tax specialist, that&#8217;s just as specialized and just as important to me as having advisory services.<\/span><span data-ccp-props=\"{&quot;335559738&quot;:200,&quot;335559739&quot;:200}\">\u00a0<\/span><\/p>\n<p><span data-contrast=\"none\">jean: yes, absolutely. yeah. i&#8217;m a huge fan of niche marketing. gosh, many years ago, earlier in my career, i was a regional marketing director at vdo. so we competed a lot against the big six, you know, at that point. and gosh, talk about industry specialization. and vdo did have specific industry specializations. but then when you look, so, for example, like we could list, oh, here&#8217;s a list of our manufacturing clients, and ernst and young or whoever would come back and say, &#8220;yes, this is our manufacturing expertise.&#8221; and this is how many, like furniture companies we have, and this is how many, whatever i don&#8217;t know, pickle manufacturers. they were just down to just deeper and deeper levels. so i&#8217;m very happy that you did unprompted say how important niching or specialization is no matter what size your firm is, it&#8217;s applicable to any size firm.<\/span><span data-ccp-props=\"{&quot;335559738&quot;:200,&quot;335559739&quot;:200}\">\u00a0<\/span><\/p>\n<p><span data-contrast=\"none\">alan: yeah, it is. and i have experienced exactly what you have, you know, as you said, how many pickle manufacturers, or how many&#8230;it was just like, &#8220;oh my gosh.&#8221; i mean,&#8230;<\/span><span data-ccp-props=\"{&quot;335559738&quot;:200,&quot;335559739&quot;:200}\">\u00a0<\/span><\/p>\n<p><span data-contrast=\"none\">jean: it&#8217;s amazing.<\/span><span data-ccp-props=\"{&quot;335559738&quot;:200,&quot;335559739&quot;:200}\">\u00a0<\/span><\/p>\n<p><span data-contrast=\"none\">alan: &#8230;you know, it makes you feel so helpless, even though you&#8217;re doing great work.<\/span><span data-ccp-props=\"{&quot;335559738&quot;:200,&quot;335559739&quot;:200}\">\u00a0<\/span><\/p>\n<p><span data-contrast=\"none\">jean: right. exactly, exactly. okay, so i have two more questions. what is the biggest obstacle that will prevent small firms from competing in the future?<\/span><span data-ccp-props=\"{&quot;335559738&quot;:200,&quot;335559739&quot;:200}\">\u00a0<\/span><\/p>\n<p><span data-contrast=\"none\">alan: the lack of commitment to continual improvement. and i do think specialization is part of that. i think the other piece is lacking focus on who you are and what you&#8217;re trying to be in the marketplace, meaning strategy. i don&#8217;t think it has to do without the outside world. i really don&#8217;t. you can&#8217;t do anything about that, right? now, a lot of people, and i&#8217;m sure my friend&#8230;and listen, alan koltin and i, we&#8217;ve done 20 deals together. so i know him very, very well. think of him as a brother. look, a lot of people will say, well, you&#8217;re not gonna compete if, you know, you just can&#8217;t. well, i don&#8217;t know if that&#8217;s true or not, because we haven&#8217;t seen this pe space or this new chapter in the profession take hold, but for four years. so we&#8217;re already writing the last chapter, and we haven&#8217;t even read the book. there will be firms that will stay independent. and even if you&#8217;re independent, you need to build engines, you need to specialize, you need to continue iterating, all those things. those things aren&#8217;t only reserved for the sponsor&#8217;s companies and that&#8217;s the message that i deliver to my clients. now, will they say it&#8217;s harder for them because they&#8217;re not piggybacking off all this money? maybe. i don&#8217;t know, maybe. so i think that it&#8217;s more about them, the small firm you&#8217;re talking about, than the outside world.<\/span><span data-ccp-props=\"{&quot;335559738&quot;:200,&quot;335559739&quot;:200}\">\u00a0<\/span><\/p>\n<p><span data-contrast=\"none\">jean: right. okay, that&#8217;s a great point. so my last question is a bonus question.<\/span><span data-ccp-props=\"{&quot;335559738&quot;:200,&quot;335559739&quot;:200}\">\u00a0<\/span><\/p>\n<p><span data-contrast=\"none\">alan: ooh, do i get a special gift or something, or points or something?<\/span><span data-ccp-props=\"{&quot;335559738&quot;:200,&quot;335559739&quot;:200}\">\u00a0<\/span><\/p>\n<p><span data-contrast=\"none\">jean: well, sure, i&#8217;ll give you a round of applause. so your bonus question is, what is your favorite dessert?<\/span><span data-ccp-props=\"{&quot;335559738&quot;:200,&quot;335559739&quot;:200}\">\u00a0<\/span><\/p>\n<p><span data-contrast=\"none\">alan: whoa. whoa. it&#8217;s pretty, pretty basic, coffee ice cream.<\/span><span data-ccp-props=\"{&quot;335559738&quot;:200,&quot;335559739&quot;:200}\">\u00a0<\/span><\/p>\n<p><span data-contrast=\"none\">jean: coffee ice cream.<\/span><span data-ccp-props=\"{&quot;335559738&quot;:200,&quot;335559739&quot;:200}\">\u00a0<\/span><\/p>\n<p><span data-contrast=\"none\">alan: my grandfather was a big coffee&#8230;my mother&#8217;s father was a big coffee ice cream fan, and, in fact, he would, you know, he&#8217;s older, obviously much older. and so he would start every meal with a glass of tomato juice, right, with a shot of worcestershire. that was his&#8230; right? i know, gross, right? but that was his thing. but then he would rinse the cup out, the little glass cup, or he would use a coffee cup, and he&#8217;d put coffee ice cream in the coffee cup, and he&#8217;d spoon it out of the coffee cup with the handle, you know, that little porcelain. and so i just took that on either like a little glass cup, and it&#8217;s coffee ice cream. i don&#8217;t eat it very often, but that&#8217;s what i love.<\/span><span data-ccp-props=\"{&quot;335559738&quot;:200,&quot;335559739&quot;:200}\">\u00a0<\/span><\/p>\n<p><span data-contrast=\"none\">jean: right. but isn&#8217;t that a great story, right? because, gosh, i even haven&#8217;t heard of coffee ice cream in a really long time.<\/span><span data-ccp-props=\"{&quot;335559738&quot;:200,&quot;335559739&quot;:200}\">\u00a0<\/span><\/p>\n<p><span data-contrast=\"none\">alan: yeah, it&#8217;s really old.<\/span><span data-ccp-props=\"{&quot;335559738&quot;:200,&quot;335559739&quot;:200}\">\u00a0<\/span><\/p>\n<p><span data-contrast=\"none\">jean: yeah. that&#8217;s [crosstalk 00:37:03].<\/span><span data-ccp-props=\"{&quot;335559738&quot;:200,&quot;335559739&quot;:200}\">\u00a0<\/span><\/p>\n<p><span data-contrast=\"none\">alan: yeah, jack hoffman, the ceo of moda furniture. he made outdoor furniture many, many years ago in new york. yeah.<\/span><span data-ccp-props=\"{&quot;335559738&quot;:200,&quot;335559739&quot;:200}\">\u00a0<\/span><\/p>\n<p><span data-contrast=\"none\">jean: wonderful. thank you for sharing that. i&#8217;ve been talking today with alan whitman, ceo of adw advisory. alan, thank you for sharing your insights with us today.<\/span><span data-ccp-props=\"{&quot;335559738&quot;:200,&quot;335559739&quot;:200}\">\u00a0<\/span><\/p>\n<p><span data-contrast=\"none\">alan: my pleasure jean, it&#8217;s been a joy. great questions. you&#8217;re obviously very knowledgeable about the profession in this space by virtue of your questions. and i hope i gave you a little bit to chew on. and i hope your listeners and watchers get something out of this.<\/span><span data-ccp-props=\"{&quot;335559738&quot;:200,&quot;335559739&quot;:200}\">\u00a0<\/span><\/p>\n<p><span data-contrast=\"none\">jean: thank you for that, and you absolutely did. and thank you for tuning in to &#8220;gear up for growth.&#8221; be sure to check us out next time when we focus on another topic crucial for accounting firms aiming for smart growth in today&#8217;s competitive landscape. i&#8217;ll see you then.<\/span><span data-ccp-props=\"{&quot;335559738&quot;:200,&quot;335559739&quot;:200}\">\u00a0<\/span><\/p>\n","protected":false},"excerpt":{"rendered":"<p><strong>&#8220;speed and being nimble are critical to being able to try new things and iterate quickly.&#8221;<\/strong><br \/>\n<img loading=\"lazy\" decoding=\"async\" class=\"alignnone wp-image-135090\" src=\"\/\/www.g005e.com\/wp-content\/uploads\/2024\/11\/unlocking-the-secrets-to-smart-growth-with-alan-whitman-_-gear-up-for-growth-low.gif\" alt=\"\" width=\"250\" height=\"141\" \/><br \/>\n<strong><em>gear up for growth<\/em><\/strong><br \/>\n<em>with jean caragher<br \/>\nfor 卡塔尔世界杯常规比赛时间<\/em><\/p>\n","protected":false},"author":1334,"featured_media":135090,"comment_status":"open","ping_status":"closed","sticky":false,"template":"","format":"standard","meta":{"_acf_changed":false,"_relevanssi_hide_post":"","_relevanssi_hide_content":"","_relevanssi_pin_for_all":"","_relevanssi_pin_keywords":"","_relevanssi_unpin_keywords":"","_relevanssi_related_keywords":"","_relevanssi_related_include_ids":"0","_relevanssi_related_exclude_ids":"","_relevanssi_related_no_append":"","_relevanssi_related_not_related":"","_relevanssi_related_posts":"","_relevanssi_noindex_reason":"","footnotes":""},"categories":[1362,4742,2734,3002,9,2764],"tags":[4555,4439,6,4560,4776],"class_list":["post-135087","post","type-post","status-publish","format-standard","has-post-thumbnail","hentry","category-featured-video","category-gear-up-for-growth","category-podcast","category-special","category-strategy","category-video","tag-alan-whitman","tag-gear-up-for-growth","tag-bsg-business-builder","tag-jean-caragher","tag-strategic-growth"],"acf":[],"yoast_head":"<!-- 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