{"id":126073,"date":"2024-06-13t00:20:58","date_gmt":"2024-06-13t04:20:58","guid":{"rendered":"\/\/www.g005e.com\/?p=126073"},"modified":"2024-08-29t23:53:04","modified_gmt":"2024-08-30t03:53:04","slug":"loren-fogelman-stop-undercharging-and-be-client-centered-disruptors","status":"publish","type":"post","link":"\/\/www.g005e.com\/2024\/06\/13\/loren-fogelman-stop-undercharging-and-be-client-centered-disruptors\/","title":{"rendered":"loren fogelman: stop undercharging and start being client-centered"},"content":{"rendered":"<p><strong>stop letting your business and career &#8220;suck the life out of you.&#8221;<\/strong><\/p>\n<div style=\"padding: 56.25% 0 0 0; position: relative;\"><iframe style=\"position: absolute; top: 0; left: 0; width: 100%; height: 100%;\" title=\"fogelman: stop undercharging and be client-centered\" src=\"https:\/\/player.vimeo.com\/video\/932278627?h=f0dcab5925&amp;badge=0&amp;autopause=0&amp;player_id=0&amp;app_id=58479\" frameborder=\"0\"><\/iframe><\/div>\n<h6><span style=\"color: #919191;\">this video is a preview. the complete video episode, with commentary and transcript, is first available exclusively to pro members. the podcast version will be available everywhere you get your podcasts.<\/span><\/h6>\n<p><iframe loading=\"lazy\" style=\"border: none; height: 205px; width: 100%;\" src=\"https:\/\/www.podomatic.com\/embed\/v2\/podcast\/5781641?episode_id=10719679&amp;theme=dark\" width=\"100%\" height=\"205\" frameborder=\"0\"><\/iframe><br \/>\n<strong>the disruptors<\/strong><br \/>\n<em>with liz farr<\/em><\/p>\n<p><img loading=\"lazy\" decoding=\"async\" class=\" wp-image-96261 alignright\" src=\"\/\/www.g005e.com\/wp-content\/uploads\/2022\/04\/the-disruptors-with-liz-farr-and-cpat-hdr-vf-2022-424x242.png\" alt=\"\" width=\"254\" height=\"145\" srcset=\"\/\/www.g005e.com\/wp-content\/uploads\/2022\/04\/the-disruptors-with-liz-farr-and-cpat-hdr-vf-2022-424x242.png 424w, \/\/www.g005e.com\/wp-content\/uploads\/2022\/04\/the-disruptors-with-liz-farr-and-cpat-hdr-vf-2022-300x171.png 300w, \/\/www.g005e.com\/wp-content\/uploads\/2022\/04\/the-disruptors-with-liz-farr-and-cpat-hdr-vf-2022-600x343.png 600w, \/\/www.g005e.com\/wp-content\/uploads\/2022\/04\/the-disruptors-with-liz-farr-and-cpat-hdr-vf-2022-849x485.png 849w, \/\/www.g005e.com\/wp-content\/uploads\/2022\/04\/the-disruptors-with-liz-farr-and-cpat-hdr-vf-2022-768x439.png 768w, \/\/www.g005e.com\/wp-content\/uploads\/2022\/04\/the-disruptors-with-liz-farr-and-cpat-hdr-vf-2022-1536x877.png 1536w, \/\/www.g005e.com\/wp-content\/uploads\/2022\/04\/the-disruptors-with-liz-farr-and-cpat-hdr-vf-2022.png 1600w\" sizes=\"(max-width: 254px) 100vw, 254px\" \/><\/p>\n<p>loren fogelman is on a mission to help accountants and bookkeepers build businesses that \u201cdon\u2019t suck the life out of you.\u201d as fogelman says, \u201chow much can you actually give up your personal life before it&#8217;s not sustainable any longer?\u201d<\/p>\n<blockquote><p><strong>more <\/strong><strong>podcasts and videos:<\/strong><a href=\"\/\/www.g005e.com\/2024\/05\/21\/liz-farr-disruptors-dawn-brolin-says-grow-your-tax-and-accounting-firm-by-shrinking-it\/\"> dawn brolin says grow your firm by shrinking it<\/a> |\u00a0<a href=\"\/\/www.g005e.com\/2024\/03\/07\/the-disruptors-jason-blumer-move-leaders-out-of-client-service\/\">jason blumer &amp; julie shipp: move leaders out of client service<\/a> | <a style=\"background-color: #ffffff;\" href=\"\/\/www.g005e.com\/2023\/11\/02\/the-disruptors-james-graham-focus-on-the-true-needs-of-your-clients-richtr-financial-studios\/\">james graham: drop the billable hour and you&#8217;ll bill more<\/a> |\u00a0<a style=\"background-color: #ffffff;\" href=\"\/\/www.g005e.com\/2023\/10\/30\/disruptors-karen-reyburn-fix-your-marketing-and-fix-your-business-video-podcast\/\">karen reyburn: fix your marketing and fix your business<\/a> | <a style=\"background-color: #ffffff;\" href=\"\/\/www.g005e.com\/2023\/10\/21\/giles-pearson-swap-experience-for-education-to-solve-the-staffing-shortage\/\">giles pearson: fix the staffing crisis by swapping experience for education<\/a> | <a style=\"background-color: #ffffff;\" href=\"\/\/www.g005e.com\/2023\/10\/07\/jina-etienne-practice-fearless-inclusion\/\">jina etienne: practice fearless inclusion<\/a> |\u00a0<a style=\"background-color: #ffffff;\" href=\"\/\/www.g005e.com\/2023\/08\/27\/bill-penczak-stop-forcing-smart-people-to-do-stupid-work\/\">bill penczak: stop forcing smart people to do stupid work<\/a> |\u00a0<a style=\"background-color: #ffffff;\" href=\"\/\/www.g005e.com\/2023\/08\/21\/sandra-wiley-staffing-problem-check-your-culture\/\">sandra wiley: staffing problem? check your culture<\/a> | <a style=\"background-color: #ffffff;\" href=\"\/\/www.g005e.com\/2023\/07\/27\/scott-scarano-first-grow-people-then-firm-growth-can-follow\/\">scott scarano: first, grow people. then firm growth can follow<\/a> |<\/p>\n<p><span style=\"color: #c9990a;\"><img loading=\"lazy\" decoding=\"async\" src=\"https:\/\/cpatwpe.s3.amazonaws.com\/cpatrendlines\/wp-content\/uploads\/2016\/08\/yellow_key_clip_art-e1375897299811-36p-hi-1-e1603911598474.jpg\" alt=\"goprocpa.com\" width=\"39\" height=\"16\" \/>\u00a0exclusively for pro members.\u00a0<a style=\"color: #c9990a;\" href=\"\/\/www.g005e.com\/wp-login.php?redirect_to=\/\/www.g005e.com\/2021\/02\/05\/22-predictions-for-2021\/\">log in here<\/a>\u00a0or\u00a0<a class=\"external\" style=\"color: #c9990a;\" href=\"http:\/\/goprocpa.com\/\" target=\"_blank\" rel=\"noopener noreferrer\">2022世界杯足球排名 today<\/a>.<\/span><\/p><\/blockquote>\n<p>according to fogelman, a keynote speaker and one of america\u2019s top-ranked business coaches for business success solution, \u201cat least 57% of firm owners are undercharging for their services.\u201d she encourages professionals to double or even triple their fees, which frees up time so they can provide client-centered services and \u201cgo back to the gym or spend more time with your family or take that much-needed vacation.\u201d<\/p>\n<p>the highly-sought business coach has several methods her clients use to earn more, work less, and have more quality time for themselves.<\/p>\n<p><!--more--><\/p>\n<div style=\"padding: 56.25% 0 0 0; position: relative;\"><iframe style=\"position: absolute; top: 0; left: 0; width: 100%; height: 100%;\" title=\"fogelman: stop undercharging and be client-centered\" src=\"https:\/\/player.vimeo.com\/video\/932278837?h=d1a6c22d7e&amp;badge=0&amp;autopause=0&amp;player_id=0&amp;app_id=58479\" frameborder=\"0\"><\/iframe><\/div>\n<h6>play the full episode.<\/h6>\n<p>fogelman teaches her clients a \u201cgood-better-best\u201d approach to shift into value pricing and higher fees. the new \u201cgood\u201d fee is 1.5 times your previous fee for the same services. when you have three clients at the good price, your \u201cbetter\u201d price will be twice the original price. finally, when you have three clients at the better price, multiply your original price by three to get your \u201cbest\u201d price. with fewer clients, you can start adding advisory services. recalibrate periodically using your best price as the bottom fee and repeat the process.<\/p>\n<p>even with those drastic fee changes, fogelman says, &#8220;if you are truly client-centered, then you can expect anywhere from 80-100% of your current clients to be able to remain with you.\u201d\u00a0 to raise prices with legacy clients, loren has a five-step \u201craise your rates formula,\u201d which includes identifying your best clients, communicating your value, creating packages, applying value pricing, and mastering consultation.<\/p>\n<p>fogelman says that a key to building a firm that serves the accountant is working with the right clients. firm owners tend to approach their initial client consultations as if \u201cit&#8217;s the potential client that&#8217;s making a decision about whether to engage in services, but firm owners need to be making the decision as to whether that person is a right fit.\u201dshe explains that bringing on a client who\u2019s a poor fit for your firm can make things worse, partly because \u201ctrying to release that client takes a very, very long time.\u201d those low-value clients can also be costly \u201cbecause they&#8217;re the ones that tend to keep you from serving those quality clients at a higher level.\u201d<\/p>\n<p>attracting better clients means you \u201cneed to just stop being a best-kept secret,\u201d fogelman says, whether you\u2019re an introvert or an extrovert. letting people know who you are and what you can offer means \u201cknowing how to communicate what you know and how you make a difference for your clients\u201d and weaving those messages into your social media, your website, and all of your online profiles.<\/p>\n<p>fogelman says that when you use the right words, \u201cit&#8217;s kind of like speaking their love language.\u201d<\/p>\n<p><strong>9 key takeaways<\/strong><\/p>\n<ol>\n<li>what clients value isn\u2019t really what accountants do but it&#8217;s the fact that they have the insights and the know-how to do what needs to be done.<\/li>\n<li>think about the bottom line as well as the top line when you\u2019re growing.<\/li>\n<li>working long hours has costs beyond the time spent and your own mental and physical health. it also has costs for your family when you miss kids\u2019 events and aren\u2019t around for dinner or family meals.<\/li>\n<li>be the purple cow \u2013 the firm that grabs attention and stands out instead of blending in.<\/li>\n<li>to find out what appeals to your ideal clients, contact your top two or three clients for a 10-minute conversation. ask them about the challenges they faced when they first reached out to you and the changes since they\u2019ve been working with you. write down their exact words and use those in your website copy.<\/li>\n<li>during covid, accountants were like first responders and helped clients with ppp, eidl, and keeping their doors open. now, it\u2019s time for accountants to correct their fees to reflect the value of their services.<\/li>\n<li>raising your fees by 5-7% each year doesn\u2019t keep up with inflation. aim for an annual increase of 20-30% or more.<\/li>\n<li>by telling your clients the story behind the numbers, you can help them become financially stronger and more profitable. they won\u2019t make decisions based on gut feelings but on data.<\/li>\n<li>being client-centered can mean that the best decision for a client may be moving on to a different advisor instead of moving forward with you. it also means not thinking about what the extra revenue might mean for you and your business.<\/li>\n<\/ol>\n<p style=\"padding-left: 40px;\"><strong>about loren fogelman<img loading=\"lazy\" decoding=\"async\" class=\"alignright wp-image-126075 \" src=\"\/\/www.g005e.com\/wp-content\/uploads\/2024\/06\/loren-fogelman-424x594.jpg\" alt=\"\" width=\"201\" height=\"281\" srcset=\"\/\/www.g005e.com\/wp-content\/uploads\/2024\/06\/loren-fogelman-424x594.jpg 424w, \/\/www.g005e.com\/wp-content\/uploads\/2024\/06\/loren-fogelman-849x1188.jpg 849w, \/\/www.g005e.com\/wp-content\/uploads\/2024\/06\/loren-fogelman-768x1075.jpg 768w, \/\/www.g005e.com\/wp-content\/uploads\/2024\/06\/loren-fogelman-1097x1536.jpg 1097w, \/\/www.g005e.com\/wp-content\/uploads\/2024\/06\/loren-fogelman-300x420.jpg 300w, \/\/www.g005e.com\/wp-content\/uploads\/2024\/06\/loren-fogelman-600x840.jpg 600w, \/\/www.g005e.com\/wp-content\/uploads\/2024\/06\/loren-fogelman.jpg 1143w\" sizes=\"(max-width: 201px) 100vw, 201px\" \/><\/strong><br \/>\nloren fogelman is a keynote speaker and one of america\u2019s top-ranked business coaches. hubspot has steadily recognized her\u00a0in its annual list of the world\u2019s top 22 business coaches. she delivers talks and workshops at major accounting conferences such as accounting today\u2019s firm growth forum and accountex. fogelman is an expert in pricing strategy and sales for accounting professionals. she coaches them to shift away from the \u201cdollars per hour\u201d pricing trap to a value-based pricing model. this allows her clients to reduce workload by as much as 50% while doubling revenues. she\u2019s a regular contributor to intuit\u2019s firm of the future series, cpa leadership institute, and cpa academy, and is the author of two amazon best-seller books: &#8220;the winning point: how to master the mindset of champions&#8221; and &#8220;the success solution: break through limiting beliefs for business success.&#8221;<\/p>\n<p><strong>transcript<br \/>\n<\/strong><em>(transcripts are made available as soon as possible. they are not fully edited for grammar or spelling.)<\/em><\/p>\n<p><strong>liz farr\u00a0 <\/strong>00:04<br \/>\nwelcome to accounting disruptor conversations. i&#8217;m your host, liz farr from 卡塔尔世界杯常规比赛时间. my guest today is loren fogelman, founder and price and profit coach at business success solutions. how are you today loren? liz,<\/p>\n<p><strong>loren fogelman\u00a0 <\/strong>00:22<br \/>\ni am so excited that we get to have a disruptive conversation today. this is going to be great. so i can&#8217;t wait to dig in.<\/p>\n<p><strong>liz farr\u00a0 <\/strong>00:31<br \/>\ngreat, great. well, i&#8217;m so glad that you agreed to show up here. and let&#8217;s jump in. now, accountants who we both work with are really hard workers. but they often have a really hard time increasing their revenue without working long hours, what are some ways that they can do that they can add to the top line and not work a million hours? well,<\/p>\n<p><strong>loren fogelman\u00a0 <\/strong>01:03<br \/>\ni think it first comes down to understanding value. and that how accounting firm owners tend to look at the value is based on what they did, because they pour time, money and energy into developing their skill set and doing what they&#8217;re doing. but from a client&#8217;s perspective, what they value isn&#8217;t really what they do, it&#8217;s the fact that they have the insights and the know how to know what to do. and because of that, it&#8217;s why i developed what i call the raise your rates formula, it&#8217;s a series of five steps. and i just want to quickly go through the five steps because even for those that take the essence of it can start to really raise the bar as far as the type of quality they are and the type of currency engaging the firm as well as the services that they&#8217;re offering. so the very first step is quality clients. because in the beginning, you are probably accepting a wide range of clients, anybody that is willing to say yes to paying your fees and breathes is going to come on board. so over time, you realize you have some low value clients and some high value clients, what we want to do is have more insights as to what makes someone a quality client and a great fit for your firm. after we know who the quality clients are, then we move on to step two, which is communicating your value because what appeals to those headache clients is different than what&#8217;s going to grab the attention of those quality clients. we want to be very mindful and strategic about the right words, whether it&#8217;s on your website, your pro advisor, profile, social media, when you go to a networking event and someone asks you what you do, you want to be very aware of what words is going to grab the attention of those quality clients. number three is packaging your services. i look at the websites of a lot of accounting firms. and i go to this services page. and i see this long laundry list of ala carte services that they offer. they talk about ar and ap. and they talk about also categorizing and other things. and some of your clients just don&#8217;t know what those words mean, because they&#8217;re not in the industry, they don&#8217;t have to know. and what you need to do is really understand how to spell it out so that they do realize that oh yes, they need those things. but what i also look at is by getting away from that long laundry list of ala carte services and packaging your services, into bundles, and each bundle is going to be based on fitting with a client that has specific needs and maybe where they are in their business journey. number four is value pricing. this is part of what i love to talk about deeply. and this is how to be able to look at pricing the client, which is very different than an hourly or fixed fee where you&#8217;re pricing your time costs. and maybe there&#8217;s a little bit of profit margin. so when you start value pricing, you can actually earn two to three times more than when you do a traditional price strategy. and the last one is consultation mastery because in school, they don&#8217;t teach anything about sales and how to navigate that process even though the majority of people going through the business school are going to end up doing some type of consultation or sales at some point in their career. so if you don&#8217;t like the sales pod and you don&#8217;t want to pressure or push someone into working with you, then i consider you have what i call a value consultation instead of a sales pitch. so those are the five steps the raise your rates formula is quality clients communicate your value packages, services, value pricing and consultation mastery.<\/p>\n<p><strong>liz farr\u00a0 <\/strong>04:53<br \/>\nwell, those that&#8217;s a great way to start and people who have listened to a lot of these epic so as will know that i&#8217;m a big proponent of value pricing. we&#8217;ve had ron baker on and hector garcia and a few others. so, you know, value pricing just makes sense to me. and that was actually the way that pricing was explained to me early on in my accounting career, although the firm didn&#8217;t really do value pricing. but they often charge clients rates for tax returns that have no connection to the number of hours that were put in. but were sometimes much higher, sometimes much lower, because that was what the client valued.<\/p>\n<p><strong>loren fogelman\u00a0 <\/strong>05:50<br \/>\nthree, it can be all over the place, a lot of times, i will see where people are maybe fine. hector garcia has a great model with how to package your services. but this still behind the scenes figuring how much time they think they&#8217;re going to spend on each particular package, and then multiply it by an hourly rate. so they are doing some parts of it. but there might be some pieces that they&#8217;re missing. and as a result, they&#8217;re still under charging for their services.<\/p>\n<p><strong>liz farr\u00a0 <\/strong>06:19<br \/>\nabsolutely. well, you know, and the key, i think, really is finding the clients who really value what you can provide. because if the clients are the ones who care about what it is you&#8217;re providing, if you can&#8217;t provide what the clients care about, then it doesn&#8217;t really matter how you price, it will always be too expensive. absolutely.<\/p>\n<p><strong>loren fogelman\u00a0 <\/strong>06:47<br \/>\ni think the other thing that ends up happening was is sometimes you&#8217;re eager to bring on a new client for whatever reason. and that once you realize that person&#8217;s not a great fit for your firm services, trying to release that client takes a very, very long time. and there&#8217;s a cost to having low value clients in your firm, because they&#8217;re the ones that tend to keep you from serving those quality clients at a higher level<\/p>\n<p><strong>liz farr\u00a0 <\/strong>07:19<br \/>\nthey absolutely do. now, until recently, the business model for accounting firms really haven&#8217;t changed much for decades. but in the us, we are finally seeing firms move away from the billable hour. and they&#8217;re also developing some very different organizational structures. what are you seeing in the firms that you work with?<\/p>\n<p><strong>loren fogelman\u00a0 <\/strong>07:48<br \/>\nwell, i think similar to you, a lot of firm owners now are realizing that things are being disrupted because of technology, which means that processes are faster because they&#8217;re no longer doing spreadsheets or manually that people can now go offshore for staffing, or having their financials instead of having a to someone that might be reaching out to them. and that that means that there is a cost the old way of doing business, because eventually if they don&#8217;t change, they&#8217;re going to go the way of travel agents, where they eventually become obsolete. and they&#8217;re no longer relevant. and part of the old way of doing business is that alley as well as the fixed fee pricing structure. because i believe that when you connect your fees, the time that two things happen, they create what i call an upper limit challenge. and the upper limit challenge is when you max down on your time, it means you&#8217;re maxed out on your revenue. but i also believe it&#8217;s unfair to you and as well as your clients. because when you&#8217;re connecting your fees a time, clients want you to work as quickly as possible to pay as little as possible. you on the other hand is not incentivized to bring in technology to speed up the process. or to end that a totally overlooks your expertise. because as you gain more awareness and time in the field, you just get better at doing things. so i don&#8217;t think you should be punished because you added technology or that you now know more than when you first started out. so moving away from traditional pricing over the value pricing is the way to be able to earn more without having to work additional hours. and if you&#8217;re freeing up time, then you can work on business development or cas services adding in the advisory part or maybe you get back your personal time and can now go back to the gym or spend more time with your family or take that much needed vacation. so there&#8217;s a benefit to moving away from the old traditional pricing structures.<\/p>\n<p><strong>liz farr\u00a0 <\/strong>09:51<br \/>\nabsolutely. i think that that is long overdue. way long overdue. now people looking at entering the accounting field, look at the number of hours that people work. and some of the big four firms are now posting the number of overtime hours that they&#8217;re working by staff level. and, you know, as a staff person, you might work 200 hours of overtime a year. but by the time you make a partnership, it&#8217;s not just 200. but it&#8217;s 300. so who wants to do that?<\/p>\n<p><strong>loren fogelman\u00a0 <\/strong>10:33<br \/>\ni think that&#8217;s why the professional and right now is having trouble with staffing anyway. and they&#8217;re looking at different solutions, whether it&#8217;s ai or offshore, because it means that you have to sacrifice your life. so maybe you don&#8217;t have room for loving your life, or that you&#8217;re not eating well and taking care of yourself, your blood pressure is going up. so you now having health problems as a result, there&#8217;s a cost of doing business that way. and it&#8217;s not very focused on the individual as an employee and realizing how valued i it&#8217;s more about satisfying shareholders and the bottom line for the firm. and that&#8217;s why people leaving in droves, and a lot of them even destroy, i was talking today with somebody who left one of the big four to go out on their own because they were able to work with just 12 clients and make as much money if not more than when they were working in the big four. and this person is now spending half the year in the states and the other half a year in costa rica because it&#8217;s now a vat virtual laptop business.<\/p>\n<p><strong>liz farr\u00a0 <\/strong>11:43<br \/>\nthat&#8217;s, i love hearing stories like that. it just it is so encouraging to me that people have found ways to create a business that fits their lifestyle, and yet also serve some clients at a very deep level. so we&#8217;re not leaving the clients behind?<\/p>\n<p><strong>loren fogelman\u00a0 <\/strong>12:08<br \/>\nwell, i think that we&#8217;re leaving some of the clients behind the ones that aren&#8217;t the right fit for you and your firm and don&#8217;t really value what you do. and the something to think about when you&#8217;re looking at that is that, in those initial consultations, who is a lot of times, firm owners believe that it&#8217;s the potential client that&#8217;s making a decision about whether engage in services, but firm owners need to be making the decision as to whether that person is a right fit. also, because this is a long term relationship. and nobody wants to break up once you&#8217;re already committed to one another. so i think that firm owners really ought to start looking at the initial consultation solely as is this person a right fit for me or not? if the right fit thing, you send them in, you know, invite them to move forward. if they&#8217;re not a bad fit, then just bless them and let them move on. and it&#8217;s okay, you&#8217;ve now freed up room for someone who&#8217;s a better fit for your firm.<\/p>\n<p><strong>liz farr\u00a0 <\/strong>13:09<br \/>\nyes, no, i really agree so much with the idea of finding the better fit clients. i worked with so many who were just terrible fits for what we did, who didn&#8217;t appreciate what we did, and who were never going to be happy with their account no matter who they were. and so yeah, the best thing to do is, bless them. you know, unfortunately for some of them, i didn&#8217;t even really feel good about referring them to anybody i liked because they were so terrible. but who knows, who knows, maybe there, there&#8217;s somebody out there who would have been a perfect fit for them.<\/p>\n<p><strong>loren fogelman\u00a0 <\/strong>13:57<br \/>\nyou know what one person&#8217;s nightmare is another person&#8217;s blessing, that that&#8217;s how i look at that. and it&#8217;s okay, you don&#8217;t need to be all things to all people, you&#8217;re actually better if you know who you are not a right fit for.<\/p>\n<p><strong>liz farr\u00a0 <\/strong>14:14<br \/>\nthat&#8217;s right. now, a lot of what we hear in marketing is how to grow your top line and to grow your firm. but two firms really even need to grow. i don&#8217;t know.<\/p>\n<p><strong>loren fogelman\u00a0 <\/strong>14:33<br \/>\ni think it depends on the firm owner and knowing first of what they want, what and where they are in the business evolution i&#8217;ll just talk about myself was because i&#8217;ve consistently worked with business coaches throughout my whole journey. and when i found in the beginning absolutely looked for growth, but in the beginning i was also thinking about the top line and what about the bottom line? the bottom line is just as relevant but sometimes it gets overlooked, because we&#8217;re just focused on more and more and more. so that&#8217;s one thing to think about. and the other thing that i saw for myself is that i did burnout, i worked too many hours. and that i made a change. once i realized that it wasn&#8217;t just a cost to me of working out of hours, and not being able to do some other things. it&#8217;s when i realized the cost to my family were i wasn&#8217;t there for some of my kids events. and i wasn&#8217;t home, sometimes for dinner and family meals. and when i really started to see the cost, not only to myself, but to my family, that that&#8217;s when i really dove into making a change in my business model. so it supported my lifestyle, because i just burned out from the one that sucked the life out of me. so that&#8217;s something to think about is really not just the business itself, because it&#8217;ll take as much as you give it. but really, how does the your firm support your life instead of suck the life out of you, and you were mentioning about primary ways to increase profits. growth is okay, but you want to do strategic growth, not just any growth. so that&#8217;s something to think about. and if you&#8217;re thinking about just getting more clients, then you end up a lot of times with what i call the factory style firm, we serving a ton of clients because you have lower rates. and that means it&#8217;s going to then cut into your personal time. plus, there&#8217;s expense to having a lot of clients, because with increased clients means that you&#8217;re paying additional fees, probably for some of the sas products that you&#8217;re using and other types of technology. the second option is that you can cut costs, you can go lean, when you go lean the what happens is you pay the price of having to put more time into your firm. and that has a downside to it as well. because how much can you actually give up your personal life before you really can&#8217;t, it&#8217;s not sustainable any longer. so the third way to increase prices is fine, i&#8217;m sorry, the third way to increase profits is by raising your rates. and raising your rates is the one option out of those three, that goes almost 100% to the bottom line, and increases your profit margin without involving any additional costs or any additional time on your end. so those are three things to think about is you can get more clients and have that factory style firm, you can cut costs, which means that you&#8217;re devoting more time into your firm, to be able to be operational serve your clients, or you can raise your rates, which means that you don&#8217;t need as many clients to meet your revenue needs.<\/p>\n<p><strong>liz farr\u00a0 <\/strong>17:47<br \/>\nlike to third option best needs. i think that makes the most sense, you know, i mean, yes, you can&#8217;t serve as many clients that way. but there are an awful lot of technologies out there that mean that it&#8217;s becoming easier and easier for clients to self serve themselves. so there isn&#8217;t such a need, you know, we were not filling out tax returns by hand anymore. that&#8217;s a good thing. where we&#8217;re using software. and we don&#8217;t need to use excel spreadsheets or 13 column ledger&#8217;s to do our bookkeeping anymore. we can plug the numbers into quickbooks, we can connect an accounting gl to our bank and get all the numbers in there together. we don&#8217;t have to do that stuff anymore. now, of course, when the amateurs do these things, it&#8217;s not always so pretty. but that is always an option.<\/p>\n<p><strong>loren fogelman\u00a0 <\/strong>19:06<br \/>\nabsolutely. and i think that something to think about is that a junior level bookkeeper is going to do junior level work. whereas when you engage a senior level bookkeeper, then they&#8217;re going to be doing work at a higher level. and it has nothing to do once again with how much time that taking because that junior level person might be taking two or three times more hours, even though they&#8217;re charging a lower hourly rate than someone senior level who might be charging higher hourly rate but doing it in a fraction of time, which means that you could actually be paying a senior level person less money than the junior level if you continue to connect your fees to time.<\/p>\n<p><strong>liz farr\u00a0 <\/strong>19:53<br \/>\nthat&#8217;s absolutely correct. now it used to be when i was at accountant to be successful, we still needed to practically keep the irs rigs in our hands, we had to be really good with a 10 key. but some of those skills have gone by the wayside with technology. so what are some of the skills that accountants need today, especially if they want to attract quality clients? well,<\/p>\n<p><strong>loren fogelman\u00a0 <\/strong>20:27<br \/>\ni think that this is where good communication and listening skills come in. this is having the emotional intelligence and not that you need to be someone&#8217;s financial therapist, even though you might end up doing that too, with some of your clients. but that you really need to understand that whether you&#8217;re an extrovert or an introvert, you need to just stop being a best kept secret, so people know who you are, and what you can offer your clients. so it&#8217;s being able to understand the way to communicate the value of your services, and really paying attention to what people are asking for, when you are able to really use those right words to attract those quality clients, then you no longer blending in and sounding like everybody else is talking about the spreadsheets or about once again, the inputs and the work that you&#8217;re doing the test and the workflows, but you really doing things that&#8217;s going to stand out. i see. it&#8217;s similar to seth godin in the purple cow story, where someone&#8217;s driving down the country road. and it&#8217;s a beautiful sunday day. and they&#8217;re going by all these farms with the brown cows and the blackouts, and all of a sudden, there&#8217;s this purple cow, and you see this purple cow, you&#8217;re going to pull over with your car, you&#8217;re going to grab your phone, before you get out of the car, you&#8217;re going to take a selfie with that purple cow put on social media, and it goes viral, because it grabs your attention. and that firm owners want to be able to grab attention with something that stands out rather than blending in. and it&#8217;s really knowing how to communicate what you know, and how you make a difference for your clients. then the work that you&#8217;re actually doing, and this affects everything, whether it&#8217;s social media posts, your website, what you put on your pro advisor profile, all those things are opportunities for you to grab the attention of those quality clients, because you know how to use the right words, that really speaks to them. and when you do that, it&#8217;s kind of like speaking their love language.<\/p>\n<p><strong>liz farr\u00a0 <\/strong>22:35<br \/>\nso true. now, i will challenge for accountants is that we think very technically, hmm. but that is not what our clients understand. so how, how can we make that transition? how can we make sure that we&#8217;re speaking in the words that appeal to our prospective clients?<\/p>\n<p><strong>loren fogelman\u00a0 <\/strong>23:04<br \/>\nif you&#8217;re not sure what those are, first of all, i know that we like things in a formula clean, neat and tidy. when it comes to marketing and communication, it&#8217;s a little bit more messy, it&#8217;s combination of art and science. if you want to know what appeals to those clients, i suggest you reach out to maybe a top two or three clients who have just a dream to work with. and ask them to have a quick 10 minute conversation with you. and when you meet with them, you want to ask them, what were some of the challenges that you were going on with him when he first reached out to me? and write down their words exactly as they say in them, don&#8217;t interpret them into accounting language. so you want to thread their words. and then you want to ask them what are some of the changes that have happened because the fact that you now have up to date accurate financials, because the fact that you&#8217;re no longer out of compliance with your taxes, and everything can now be filed on time. and you want to find out from them what the difference has been, because of them engaging in firms services. and the next thing you want to ask them is what has been possible for you, because the fact that we are doing this for you, and that everything is available to you it&#8217;s up to date, it&#8217;s accurate, and that you no longer have to do this yourself or feel that this isn&#8217;t being done correctly. and you want to be able to grab that attention. those words of what they&#8217;ve been able to do because they now no longer are tolerating something that really wasn&#8217;t very good or effective for them. so when you&#8217;re doing that, you&#8217;re starting to hear what&#8217;s top of mind of your best clients. and then you could just use those words in your copy to be able or have you do the copy for them with someone that knows how to talk take that interview and actually transcribe it in a way that flows, it reaches out to people, and they want to then know more about how your firm can help them.<\/p>\n<p><strong>liz farr\u00a0 <\/strong>25:13<br \/>\nthat&#8217;s absolutely true. you know, and, and i will just add a little tip for people. there are apps you can get on your phone that will record and automatically transcribe what they&#8217;re saying it&#8217;s pretty unobtrusive, you know, you just grab your phone, ask get permission to record, but to know that you won&#8217;t be using their words without their permission. but you can just record it and get it transcribed. and then you can play with the text.<\/p>\n<p><strong>loren fogelman\u00a0 <\/strong>25:47<br \/>\nor you can have someone else do this interview for you, if it feels uncomfortable, you don&#8217;t doing it yourself. and sometimes you get better answers when someone else is doing it for you.<\/p>\n<p><strong>liz farr\u00a0 <\/strong>25:58<br \/>\nthat&#8217;s also another good tip. now, we&#8217;ve talked a lot about making the transition from hourly billing to value pricing, that&#8217;s not always a very easy transition to make. what are some ways that you recommend in starting that?<\/p>\n<p><strong>loren fogelman\u00a0 <\/strong>26:21<br \/>\nwhat i want to say is, there&#8217;s a lot of talk about value pricing. and people have tried it, people think it&#8217;s a good idea, but they don&#8217;t really understand how to do this. and this is where if it interests you, you&#8217;re listening, grab a pen and paper or get ready to do some fast typing, because i&#8217;m going to give you the exact steps on how to start shifting away from your time based fees over the value pricing. and i call it the good better best pricing model, it&#8217;s similar to when you first learned to ride a two wheeled bicycle and in the beginning you really shaky and might fall over and skin your knees a little bit, but you get back up. so this is the steps towards value pricing. and what you want to look at is you have people coming to you, and you&#8217;re gonna have people coming to you and come up with that original fixed fee you would have given in your proposal for that particular client. now i want you to take that original fixed fee and multiply it by 1.5. that is your new good price. i want you to well three people at your new good price. because this gives you insights that clients aren&#8217;t as price sensitive as you think they are. after another three people, we go to tier two, your new better price, people will come to you come up with that original fixed fee. now we&#8217;re going to multiply it by 2x. and you&#8217;re going to start to enroll people at twice what you were previously charging, no additional time spent working. as a result of this, you are getting better at having that initial conversation where they see the value of working with you instead of somebody else&#8217;s option. and this means that you&#8217;re just getting a better quality clients. so after you enroll three clients at your new better rate, we go to the top tier, which is your new best price. once again, people come to you come up with that original fixed fee, you would have charged now we&#8217;re going to multiply it by 3x. i want to let you know charging three times more than what you originally did takes courage, not confidence. the confidence comes afterwards when you start onboarding people at triple that original rate. but what you find is that you&#8217;re working with a better level of client, you don&#8217;t need as many clients to meet your revenue needs, you can now add in advisory services or start week building up personal life again. so that&#8217;s what i call the good better best pricing model to move towards value pricing. and here&#8217;s a tip, at some point, that new best price needs to go back to the bottom and you can recalibrate and go through the good better best pricing model all over again. so that&#8217;s the way to start moving towards value pricing in a very gradual way that has a formula to it. and it allows you to start really raising the bar as far as who you&#8217;re working with.<\/p>\n<p><strong>liz farr\u00a0 <\/strong>29:09<br \/>\nthat&#8217;s a really good way to do that. and, like accountants, we like those formulas we like okay, you know, i used to charge $500 for tax return. now it&#8217;s going to be 750 oh, and then the next year, it&#8217;s going to be 1000 oh, and the next year it&#8217;s going to be 1500 wow. so if i&#8217;m charging $1,500 for this, shouldn&#8217;t my work also be worth a little more? should i also be providing a little more to the client? hmm, now that i have some bandwidth to do that. i can actually start thinking about their tax return and the numbers that go on it instead of just trying to whip them out as quickly as possible? absolutely,<\/p>\n<p><strong>loren fogelman\u00a0 <\/strong>30:04<br \/>\nit creates a time to do those high level cast services, and you get to now advise them as opposed to just doing after the fact compliance work. it&#8217;s a game changer.<\/p>\n<p><strong>liz farr\u00a0 <\/strong>30:17<br \/>\nabsolutely, there were so many clients that we worked with that i worked with that, you know, we could see that there was a train wreck coming, but we just didn&#8217;t have the capacity or the bandwidth to try to rescue this person. you know, and frequently, i would bring it up with a partner and say, hey, look, you know, this is something is going to happen, if they&#8217;re not careful, what can we do to help them and sometimes we would sometimes, there just wasn&#8217;t capacity in the firm to do that. and, you know, it. it personally hurts me to this day. but some of these people ended up in really dire situations that could have been prevented if we&#8217;d have the bandwidth.<\/p>\n<p><strong>loren fogelman\u00a0 <\/strong>31:16<br \/>\nand less, i think that that&#8217;s true with so many firm owners is they&#8217;re highly client centered. it was so evident to manager that we talked about this in a previous conversation with covid, where firm owners and their staff were pouring their own time and effort into helping the clients by understanding how to navigate the ppp the eidl, just being there for the clients to help them understand how to keep their doors open or operational, as we were going through this disruption in our entire way of doing business and economy. and because of that, those clients got a lot of value. and it&#8217;s because the fact that firm owners, they were first responders, and nobody really acknowledged how much they gave. but i saw them on the frontlines in so many different ways without recognition, and most of them did it without compensation, also. and i realized that that&#8217;s what firm owners bring to the table. and it&#8217;s now time for us to make this correction, where the fees that they charge, reflect the value of the services, and really how dedicated and client centered they are. because most people who go into this profession do it, because it&#8217;s a calling. there&#8217;s a real deep desire to want to make a difference. and they can do it by understanding the numbers.<\/p>\n<p><strong>liz farr\u00a0 <\/strong>32:45<br \/>\nabsolutely. now, we&#8217;ve talked a lot today about the changes that accounting firms need to make. but what are some of the blocks that keep accountants from making the changes they know they need to make?<\/p>\n<p><strong>loren fogelman\u00a0 <\/strong>33:01<br \/>\nwell, we, as firm owners, we tend to be the biggest obstacle and block to our own success so often, and that there&#8217;s really fear about if i raise okay, so if anybody is listening, if i told you right after this conversation to go ahead and double or triple your fees, what thought just came up the pop first into your mind? and a lot of times, okay, so you just had a thought was what was that?<\/p>\n<p><strong>liz farr\u00a0 <\/strong>33:30<br \/>\noh, my god, i can&#8217;t do that. but price gouging.<\/p>\n<p><strong>loren fogelman\u00a0 <\/strong>33:36<br \/>\nso price gouging, you want to charge a fair fee, but who decides what&#8217;s fair, right? and the other part is usually worried about losing clients, or when you go into the price gouging, then there&#8217;s going to be pushback, maybe there&#8217;s going to be a confrontation. and that doesn&#8217;t feel very comfortable. the other part is you see yourself still as a technician, and don&#8217;t realize the value of your services. and the other part is that you think, well, i could never pay those fees. if i would hide myself. how can i expect someone else to pay those fees, but sometimes you not your own best clients. and, and statistically, i&#8217;ve done the research is that first of all, at least 57% of firm owners are under charging for their services. but the other thing if you are truly client centered, then you can expect anywhere from 80 to 100% of your current clients to be able to remain with you, especially if you are a client centered, firm and that comes through. so this is where investing in the relationship really pays off is expect 82 to 100% of your clients to stay with you. even though you&#8217;re changing your business model and increasing your fees.<\/p>\n<p><strong>liz farr\u00a0 <\/strong>34:56<br \/>\nthat should be encouragement. it should be a rallying call to firm owners to raise their rates. see won&#8217;t be such a loss, you may have to, if you&#8217;re over capacity, you may have to raise them even more to create some bandwidth for yourself.<\/p>\n<p><strong>loren fogelman\u00a0 <\/strong>35:18<br \/>\nabsolutely. and i&#8217;m going to say that most homeowners will stick with the status quo of a five to 7% yearly increase. that&#8217;s just not enough. it&#8217;s not even keeping up with inflation. when you do that, you&#8217;re just thinking that you can be sneaky with a fee increase, and nobody&#8217;s going to know. so i like looking aiming for maybe a 20 30%, or even more as far as raising your rates. and this includes the legacy clients, not just the new ones coming in.<\/p>\n<p><strong>liz farr\u00a0 <\/strong>35:51<br \/>\nyeah, no, i know, accountants think about this. and they talk about raising their rates. sometimes they think about it for months and years, before they actually do that. so what are some action steps that people can take to raise their fees in those big chunks, those big 20 and 30, and 40 and 50%? range?<\/p>\n<p><strong>loren fogelman\u00a0 <\/strong>36:17<br \/>\nwell, this is exactly what i do with my clients is i work with them through the process, i&#8217;ll handhold them as much as they need. but i just want to give you the overview on how you can do it if you&#8217;ve been ready, not just to raise the fees of new clients, but your legacy clients and get them up to your current rates, is the very first thing you want to do with the raise rates formula is communicate your communicate to your clients that you&#8217;re making some changes in your business model. i don&#8217;t want you to go with the standby excuses of my costs have resentment, and i&#8217;m passing on to you, because that&#8217;s a reality for all of us. once again, client centered, you want to put something in that first communication about how you make some changes to better serve your clients. the second thing you want to do is have someone on your team or yourself reach out to calendar, a conversation, especially if you&#8217;re going to raise the rates more than 20 to 30%. you want this to be a conversation as opposed to in an email. and we need to then get something on the calendar. so that would be the second step. and then the third one is that conversation. this is where you want to have a value conversation. and you ask him very strategic questions, instead of pitching his services, and justifying why you&#8217;re passing along a rate increase to them. so you want to think about asking them what&#8217;s going on with them. and what are the some of the things that they want to achieve over the next 12 months, as you&#8217;re hearing about some of the things that are top of mind for them, consider how you might be able to assist them by giving them insights into their financials, or being able to pull some numbers together so that they can get a business loan where they might not currently be qualified for one. so look at how to insert yourself into that solution. because when they&#8217;re sharing what&#8217;s top of mind for them, that&#8217;s something that&#8217;s meaningful. and i know that there&#8217;s a way that you can help them with that. and then during that conversation, you want to do the next piece, which is talk about how to move forward. this is where you want to give people options, because based on neuroscience, people make better decisions when they can compare different options together. and i would rather than them compare different ways of moving forward with you by offering three package options than just giving them one option of either you move forward with me or you move on. so once again, people want choices, and you want to give them package options. and then the last part is you want to consider that there will be some objections, because people don&#8217;t like change, and they&#8217;ve got to know why you&#8217;re doing something differently and charging them more and think about what will be some of the top five objections you&#8217;re gonna get. go ahead and write out a soundbite as to how you would like to respond to that. then practice it out loud, whether it&#8217;s in front of the mirror with one of your pets with a trusted, real associate as to how you say that because what you write out, and how you actually say it out loud, are two different things. and when it comes up and you need to respond to it, i don&#8217;t want you to get flustered and shut down the conversation and want you to be able to respond in a way that comes through with confidence and you don&#8217;t sound scripted. so those are the five things that i take firm owners through on how to be able to increase the rates 2030 even more 50% and it&#8217;s first communicating that you&#8217;re going to make some changes in your firm that are client centered calendaring, getting something on the calendar, having that value conversation we asking great questions, giving them choices. this means packages on how to move forward. and then also doing some pre work where you&#8217;re considering the objection so that when they come up, you are able to actually confidently answer them, instead of being caught off guard and closing down the conversation too soon, because you misread the objection. oh, and i have a resource that goes with it, liz, if somebody wants to know how to raise rates with current clients, that goes into more detail, they can go to business success solution.com, forward slash raise, and get that free resource that they had the step by step guidelines.<\/p>\n<p><strong>liz farr\u00a0 <\/strong>40:41<br \/>\noh, that&#8217;ll be perfect. and, you know, that step that you have about the value conversation and really going in deep to what the client is trying to achieve? because so often, we don&#8217;t really have any clue what their objectives are. you know, before i left public accounting, i counseled some of my co workers to say, you know, look, if we&#8217;re gonna say we&#8217;re a holistic provider of accounting services, then we need to know what it is they&#8217;re trying to achieve. and what is your five year goal? what is your one year goal? what do you want to do with this business? do you want to build it to something that you can sell? do you want to build it something you pass on to your children? or are you looking to sell it, just sell it in a year or two. and those all have very different things that you want to do with your with a business. and they&#8217;re all things that accountants can help with?<\/p>\n<p><strong>loren fogelman\u00a0 <\/strong>41:47<br \/>\nabsolutely. and if they don&#8217;t know that you can do it, they&#8217;re going to go and hire an outside consultant that actually spells it out that they can do this for them, even though that you are already working closely with your client, and then numbers. so realize that somebody&#8217;s business owners, they&#8217;re not going to understand the numbers and how to apply them as well as you do. they don&#8217;t understand the story behind the numbers, the numbers might overwhelm them. and i seen very solid six and even multi seven figure businesses that don&#8217;t the whole business, on instinct without really understanding how to apply the numbers to those decisions. and how would they be so much stronger, financially, and more profitable if they actually saw you as that resource that can help them understand the numbers with what they want to move forward with? and then they&#8217;re making decisions based not just on the gut feeling, but also on the data that can support that?<\/p>\n<p><strong>liz farr\u00a0 <\/strong>42:47<br \/>\nabsolutely, you know that, you know, we can help them with so many things, or should i bid on this contract? what is the minimum bid i should accept for this contract? should i buy another truck? should i open another location? those are all things that accountants can help with.<\/p>\n<p><strong>loren fogelman\u00a0 <\/strong>43:09<br \/>\nand a lot of times when they are looking at you to help them first of all, they no longer seeing you as a technician. so that is actually creating client loyalty where they&#8217;ll stick with you longer, they&#8217;re less price sensitive. but that what if you could help them do that build out a year earlier than they thought, because of the fact that you know how to do some forecasting for them. you&#8217;re tracking their kpis, this sort of metrics that are going to make a difference, and then how that&#8217;s going to make a difference their bottom line, because if they did that build out a year sooner than expected, that&#8217;s like compounding interest for them and their business.<\/p>\n<p><strong>liz farr\u00a0 <\/strong>43:48<br \/>\nabsolutely. and there are so many ways that we can help our clients so much more. we just have to be willing to share that information with our clients,<\/p>\n<p><strong>loren fogelman\u00a0 <\/strong>44:00<br \/>\nwhich goes back to the communication, right was educating them.<\/p>\n<p><strong>liz farr\u00a0 <\/strong>44:04<br \/>\nyes, yes. yes. and you with education, you have to accept that some will. and some wrote that that&#8217;s true.<\/p>\n<p><strong>loren fogelman\u00a0 <\/strong>44:21<br \/>\nand with that, that&#8217;s an interesting concept that i see as far as being an advisor as opposed to a technician. because as an advisor, you want to help your client make the best decision possible. you want. you don&#8217;t want to be attached to the yes or no. and sometimes the best decision is moving on instead of moving forward together. so when you&#8217;re really coming from that advisory position, it&#8217;s really looking at what&#8217;s in the best interest of your client instead of thinking about what&#8217;s in your best interest. and that&#8217;s something to think about that causes a lot of accounting professionals to get caught off guard or flustered in these consultative meetings is that when it comes time to enrolling someone, or increasing someone&#8217;s rates, you start thinking about yourself and what you can do with the extra revenue. and when that happens, you switched you no longer being client centered up and self serving. so understanding detachment in that particular role or type of compensation is something that pays off in dividends.<\/p>\n<p><strong>liz farr\u00a0 <\/strong>45:26<br \/>\nit really does. you know, and i like to focus on making sure that your mindset is oriented to the client&#8217;s best interest, not just thinking, oh, boy, if i get, if i get another two clients here, then then i can afford that new car payment. no, no, you want to think about how you can leverage your clients income and their bottom line.<\/p>\n<p><strong>loren fogelman\u00a0 <\/strong>46:02<br \/>\nand some that happens. and i learned this from my own experience, also, when i first started doing enrolling conversations, is that when you start thinking about that new car payment that you can afford, because you might be signing on a new client, that&#8217;s when having that closing conversation gets uncomfortable, and you end up making mistakes, you get nervous, you shut it down too soon, is because you really started thinking about yourself, and getting defensive, instead of continuing to be client centered and thinking about that other person.<\/p>\n<p><strong>liz farr\u00a0 <\/strong>46:35<br \/>\nor client centered, i think, is the perfect way to wrap up our conversation. because that&#8217;s, you know, that really is the key to everything that really is the golden ticket to really serving our clients, and creating businesses that we love. it really is so much. now, i want to thank you so much, lauren, for sharing your wisdom and your intellectual capital with listeners today. now, if people want to connect with you, where are the best places to find joe? well,<\/p>\n<p><strong>loren fogelman\u00a0 <\/strong>47:16<br \/>\nthe best way to connect with me if you first of all, i just want to acknowledge anybody that took time away from working in their business. and joining us today to get those insights, those tips, which is working on your business, if you felt that you got something that was a value and you are ready to raise your rates, especially with those legacy clients, get your personal time back without it affecting your revenues, then i invite you to have a conversation with me. it&#8217;s a race to raise raise your rates conversation, and basically, it&#8217;s a dedicated conversation about how to be able to navigate this boat with you and your firm. if that interests you then go to business success solution.com forward slash let&#8217;s talk and that lets me know you&#8217;re interested we can get something set up. once again, it&#8217;s business success solution.com forward slash, let&#8217;s talk to be able to get that conversation set up.<\/p>\n","protected":false},"excerpt":{"rendered":"<p><strong>stop letting your business and career &#8220;suck the life out of you.&#8221;<\/strong><br \/>\n<img loading=\"lazy\" decoding=\"async\" class=\"alignnone wp-image-126078\" src=\"\/\/www.g005e.com\/wp-content\/uploads\/2024\/06\/vid-194_the-disruptors_wliz-farr_57_loren-fogelman-low.gif\" alt=\"\" width=\"250\" height=\"141\" \/><br \/>\n<strong>the disruptors<\/strong><br \/>\n<em>with liz farr<\/em><\/p>\n","protected":false},"author":4386,"featured_media":126078,"comment_status":"open","ping_status":"closed","sticky":false,"template":"","format":"standard","meta":{"_acf_changed":false,"_relevanssi_hide_post":"","_relevanssi_hide_content":"","_relevanssi_pin_for_all":"","_relevanssi_pin_keywords":"","_relevanssi_unpin_keywords":"","_relevanssi_related_keywords":"","_relevanssi_related_include_ids":"","_relevanssi_related_exclude_ids":"","_relevanssi_related_no_append":"","_relevanssi_related_not_related":"","_relevanssi_related_posts":"","_relevanssi_noindex_reason":"","footnotes":""},"categories":[1362,2734,2274,3120,3869,2764,2312],"tags":[4278,3958,4281,4283],"class_list":["post-126073","post","type-post","status-publish","format-standard","has-post-thumbnail","hentry","category-featured-video","category-podcast","category-pricing","category-pro-member-exclusive","category-the-disruptors","category-video","category-women","tag-billing-rate","tag-cpa-billing-rates","tag-fee-structure","tag-pricing-rates"],"acf":[],"yoast_head":"<!-- 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