{"id":119528,"date":"2023-10-01t00:00:50","date_gmt":"2023-10-01t04:00:50","guid":{"rendered":"\/\/www.g005e.com\/?p=119528"},"modified":"2024-08-27t17:01:07","modified_gmt":"2024-08-27t21:01:07","slug":"150-hours-revisited-the-profession-needs-a-facelift","status":"publish","type":"post","link":"\/\/www.g005e.com\/2023\/10\/01\/150-hours-revisited-the-profession-needs-a-facelift\/","title":{"rendered":"150 hours revisited: the profession needs a facelift"},"content":{"rendered":"<div style=\"padding: 56.25% 0 0 0; position: relative;\"><iframe style=\"position: absolute; top: 0; left: 0; width: 100%; height: 100%;\" title=\"150 hours revisited: the profession needs a facelift\" src=\"https:\/\/player.vimeo.com\/video\/884560732?h=cb386b614f&amp;badge=0&amp;autopause=0&amp;quality_selector=1&amp;player_id=0&amp;app_id=58479\" frameborder=\"0\"><\/iframe><\/div>\n<p><strong>what if pipeline issues aren&#8217;t related to education or experience but rather just image? <\/strong><\/p>\n<p><em>with steven sacks<br \/>\n<a href=\"\/\/www.g005e.com\/shop\/ss20tnf\/\">the new fundamentals: thriving in disruption<\/a><\/em><\/p>\n<p>while firms and accountants continue to lament staffing challenges and research continues into finding workable solutions for firms and finance teams of all sizes, one idea that is beginning to gain more traction has less to do with education versus experience and more to do with marketing.<\/p>\n<p>david bergstein, cpa, citp, cgma, discussed the future of the profession, specifically the ongoing discourse surrounding the perceived necessity of a fifth year in accounting education.<\/p>\n<blockquote><p><strong>more steve sacks:<\/strong> <a href=\"\/\/www.g005e.com\/2023\/02\/20\/how-do-you-value-your-most-important-asset\/\">how do you value your most important asset?<\/a> | <a href=\"\/\/www.g005e.com\/2023\/08\/13\/which-is-better-a-year-of-education-or-a-year-of-experience-steven-sacks-and-david-bergstein\/\">which is better: a year of education or a year of experience?<\/a> | <a href=\"\/\/www.g005e.com\/2021\/04\/06\/james-lopiccolo-sell-service-not-hours\/\">sell service, not hours<\/a> | <a href=\"\/\/www.g005e.com\/2022\/03\/19\/how-private-equity-changes-everything\/\">private equity vs. the cpa firm partnership<\/a> | <a href=\"\/\/www.g005e.com\/2022\/04\/27\/new-podcast-is-it-cas-or-caas-getting-clarity\/\">cas or caas? getting clarity<\/a> | <a href=\"\/\/www.g005e.com\/2022\/07\/25\/fine-tuning-the-subscription-fee-model\/\">fine-tuning the subscription fee model<\/a> |\u00a0<a href=\"\/\/www.g005e.com\/2021\/04\/11\/fighting-cyber-crime-starts-close-to-home\/\">when cyber-crime hits close to home<\/a> | <a href=\"\/\/www.g005e.com\/2022\/12\/16\/how-to-build-a-winning-proposal\/\">how to build a winning proposal<\/a> | <a href=\"\/\/www.g005e.com\/2022\/10\/29\/six-ways-to-fix-your-firm-agreement\/\">six ways to fix your firm agreement<\/a> | <a href=\"\/\/www.g005e.com\/2022\/10\/18\/the-great-resignation-or-a-reshuffling\/\">the great resignation or a reshuffling?<\/a> | <a href=\"\/\/www.g005e.com\/2022\/07\/24\/listen-to-learn\/\">listen to learn<\/a> | <a href=\"\/\/www.g005e.com\/2022\/07\/09\/build-the-framework-to-a-solution-with-five-answers\/\">build the framework to a solution with five answers<\/a> | <a href=\"\/\/www.g005e.com\/2022\/06\/10\/try-for-success-not-a-win\/\">try for success, not a win<\/a><br \/>\n<strong><img loading=\"lazy\" decoding=\"async\" class=\"alignleft wp-image-49700 size-full\" src=\"https:\/\/cpatwpe.s3.amazonaws.com\/cpatrendlines\/wp-content\/uploads\/2016\/08\/yellow_key_clip_art-e1375897299811-36p-hi-1-e1603911598474.jpg\" alt=\"goprocpa.com\" width=\"39\" height=\"16\" \/><span style=\"color: #b79c00;\">exclusively for pro members. <\/span><\/strong><span style=\"color: #b79c00;\"><a style=\"color: #b79c00;\" href=\"\/\/www.g005e.com\/wp-login.php?redirect_to=\/\/www.g005e.com\/2023\/10\/01\/150-hours-revisited-the-profession-needs-a-facelift\/\">log in here<\/a> or <a class=\"external\" style=\"color: #b79c00;\" href=\"http:\/\/goprocpa.com\/\" target=\"_blank\" rel=\"noopener\">2022世界杯足球排名 today<\/a>.<\/span><\/p><\/blockquote>\n<p>bergstein challenged the conventional wisdom surrounding the 150-hour requirement for cpa eligibility, suggesting that the industry&#8217;s primary challenge lay not in the academic threshold but in the misperception of accounting as a lackluster career. &#8220;we&#8217;re beating a horse that&#8217;s almost dead,&#8221; he remarked, questioning the emphasis on extending education rather than redefining the profession&#8217;s image.<\/p>\n<p><!--more--><\/p>\n<p>bergstein&#8217;s perspective was rooted in the belief that the allure of accounting needed a marketing transformation to portray it as an exciting and dynamic field rather than a mundane exercise in number crunching. he argued that the negative stereotypes and uninspiring portrayals were deterring potential talents from considering accounting as a career. he emphasized the urgency of presenting accounting not just as financially rewarding, but also as an exciting career choice, arguing that positive waves needed to resonate from elementary school to professional platforms.<\/p>\n<p>the discussion then turned to the newly proposed fifth-year program originated by the aicpa and nasba, a development bergstein met with skepticism. he questioned the potential exclusivity of these programs, expressing concern that smaller firms might be left at a disadvantage compared to their larger counterparts. negotiations between large firms and universities for tailor-made courses emerged as a potential solution, ensuring that the benefits of such programs were not confined to a select few.<\/p>\n<p>additionally, bergstein explored the dynamics of internships and the role of firms in funding education. they posited that firms, particularly larger ones, should bear the financial burden or, at the very least, assist in alleviating the costs of interns pursuing a fifth year. the emphasis was on cultivating personal and professional growth, putting the onus on firms to foster an environment that encouraged learning and development.<\/p>\n<p>looking ahead, bergstein predicted a future where a master list of prescribed courses would emerge from nasba and the aicpa, creating a standardized pathway for the coveted fifth-year program. he envisioned firms, irrespective of size, negotiating for or providing these courses to aspiring accountants, breaking down the barriers that might deter potential candidates. bergstein concluded that making accounting more exciting, financially rewarding, and dynamically diverse was the key to attracting a new wave of talent, and shared optimism that the accounting profession was on the brink of positive change.<\/p>\n<p><!--more--><\/p>\n<p><strong>5 key takeaways:<\/strong><\/p>\n<ol>\n<li>the cpa profession has increased its cost of entry because of the fifth-year requirement.<\/li>\n<li>educational institutions, such as tulane university, and cpa firms, such as pwc, are experimenting with a program enabling students to intern during their fifth year to get experience but will still have to take online courses to satisfy the 150 credit-hour requirement.<\/li>\n<li>in addition to the cost of entry, the profession still operates with a less-than-stellar image and reputation, which will impact the pipeline.<\/li>\n<li>if the pipeline issue is to be solved, determine what the end goal is for new entrants into the profession.<\/li>\n<li>interning in smaller firms may prove to be more valuable because of the more hands-on work and variety of clients.<\/li>\n<\/ol>\n<p><strong>transcript<br \/>\n<\/strong><em>(transcripts are made available as soon as possible. they are not fully edited for grammar or spelling.)<\/em><\/p>\n<p><strong>steven sacks\u00a0 <\/strong>00:01<br \/>\nhello, my name is steven sacks of solutions to results, llc. today, i&#8217;m here with david bergstein cpa, who is known widely throughout the profession as an evangelist for quickbooks and other types of automation, and the importance of the use of technology to make the profession more efficient and serve well, those practitioners within it. so welcome, david. thank you for joining me today.<\/p>\n<p><strong>david bergstein\u00a0 <\/strong>00:29<br \/>\nthanks for having me. i just consider myself a general evangelist for promoting the accounting profession.<\/p>\n<p><strong>steven sacks\u00a0 <\/strong>00:38<br \/>\nyeah, whatever. okay, the important thing is that we&#8217;re in the process of beating a horse that&#8217;s almost dead. and if we continue on the same track, we&#8217;re going to still be beating a dead horse. and that goes back to something you and i talked about the last couple of times &#8212; in this whole thing about experience versus education. we&#8217;re now seeing some things that are taking place with pricewaterhouse, and having an internship program at tulane university, being part of the ele program that the institute has implemented in order to give a combination of work experience but still having to have that fifth year. what do you think about this experiment? is this something that is still trying to squeeze the extra year out of students? just give me your general thoughts about this whole thing.<\/p>\n<p><strong>david bergstein\u00a0 <\/strong>01:36<br \/>\nmy general thought is they&#8217;re trying to solve a problem, that isn&#8217;t a problem. and why do i say that? because i don&#8217;t think the 150 hours is as big a problem as they make it out to be. yes, i&#8217;d like to do only 120 credits and sit for the accounting exam. the reason we&#8217;re having people problems coming into accounting is because people don&#8217;t see accounting as an exciting career. and that&#8217;s what&#8217;s got to change; the marketing and promoting of accounting careers, as something exciting; as something more than just number crunching. and something that has to do with helping people be better at their businesses. and that&#8217;s what the problem is. when someone says, i don&#8217;t want to be an accountant. they don&#8217;t say 150 credits. they say i can make more money being a laborer, or doing ups. but that&#8217;s what&#8217;s on the reddit track out there.<\/p>\n<p><strong>steven sacks\u00a0 <\/strong>02:30<br \/>\nagain, is it the fact that it&#8217;s not a sexy career? or is it because i have to go through five years of it? are they mutually exclusive? or are they interdependent? what do you think?<\/p>\n<p><strong>david bergstein\u00a0 <\/strong>02:44<br \/>\ni think they play a role from both aspects of it. but if you lower the point of entry to the four years plus get on a job and take the online learning, it may encourage a few people to say, hey, i&#8217;ll do it. but they&#8217;re not going to do it unless the money is there to make the education. and they see it as more than a dry career. and when partners start to tell them how much money they make, and what kind of lifestyle you can have, you know, it might get interesting, rather than reading all these things on reddit &#8212; people being negative. because they&#8217;re in accounting because they&#8217;re doing pretty well at it. and accounting allows you to do a lot of things. but let&#8217;s get to the point here of your experience, learn, uh what is it?\u00a0 what is the experience, learn and earn credits?<\/p>\n<p><strong>steven sacks\u00a0 <\/strong>03:41<br \/>\nyes, something like that.<\/p>\n<p><strong>david bergstein\u00a0 <\/strong>03:43<br \/>\nyou know, we&#8217;re reading all about it, and all of a sudden, it&#8217;s do it online. so do i really need a fifth year of education? or do i get out there and work, and as the firm educate me, give me good jobs, give me good feedback, and critique me, and help me be better at it. that&#8217;s the experience factor. so it&#8217;s a combination of both. but i really believe and i&#8217;ll say this, then i&#8217;ll shut up. i think the aicpa and nasba are trying to save face by not reducing the 150 and saying, hey, get it this way. you can get it by experience, learn and earn. but when you think about experience learn and earn, you think of midsize and large firms. what about the small firms? how are they going to afford this? you know, they&#8217;d rather pay for someone to study for the cpa exam than take courses. and all these programs are geared, we&#8217;re hearing about large firms. i think you can you can roll off 10 large firms that are experimenting with this in different states. but, hey, the bulk of the profession, sole practitioners, small practices. they want qualified people. help the small practitioner get the person who graduates. and actually, people can get a great career in a small firm and get more experience and more diversity of jobs, and really understand that accounting is more than number crunching.<\/p>\n<p><strong>steven sacks\u00a0 <\/strong>05:13<br \/>\nyou know, it&#8217;s interesting when you talk about firm size. so if i&#8217;m going for my fifth year, and i&#8217;m involved in, let&#8217;s say, i&#8217;m interning for a large firm. now, maybe i&#8217;m getting paid, paying internship, but i still have to take the online courses. well, if it&#8217;s a large enough firm, and they really liked me, and they want to help their own pipeline situation, they should be paying for my education, okay? because if they&#8217;re not paying this internship, and i have to pay for a fifth year, i&#8217;m really underwater. if they&#8217;re paying me, it&#8217;s certainly not enough for me to live alone. but you should help defray the costs of the fifth year, especially if it&#8217;s going to be online. the whole point of the accounting profession is based on relationship building. the numbers are secondary. but i mean, if you&#8217;re going to try to tell them what the culture is like in the accounting profession, just from the standpoint of online courses, no, i&#8217;m sorry.<\/p>\n<p><strong>david bergstein\u00a0 <\/strong>06:17<br \/>\nyou know, based on what you just said about the firms, when someone&#8217;s doing an internship should pay for the courses, i&#8217;m going to venture to guess that if someone&#8217;s working for large or medium-sized firm, they&#8217;re going to pay for these courses for the people. that&#8217;s why i&#8217;m saying all of a sudden, it&#8217;s changing the playing field for small to medium firms. because what&#8217;s gonna happen, i&#8217;m gonna be a large firm, let&#8217;s say, price waterhouse, or whatever. i&#8217;m gonna negotiate with the university. i&#8217;m gonna send all my interns. i want a different price, even though it says this is the price. i want it. or, based on what we see happening out there, there&#8217;s going to be approved courses other than the college giving the course somewhere. or, maybe it&#8217;s gonna be a separate program, and they&#8217;re all going to be negotiated. and all the interns are going to sit through the same basic programs of earning and learning what they&#8217;re working on. but you know, i looked at what you sent me, i think the tulane master&#8217;s program, the fifth year, ethics in accounting and finance, auditing, advanced financial accounting, advanced managerial, business law. those are just courses i can actually take on cpe. especially ethics auditing&#8230;<\/p>\n<p><strong>steven sacks\u00a0 <\/strong>07:35<br \/>\nfrom the firm\u00a0 &#8212; from a firm-sponsored cpe.<\/p>\n<p><strong>david bergstein\u00a0 <\/strong>07:38<br \/>\nright there. not to mention names. it could be becker. it could be rogers.<\/p>\n<p><strong>steven sacks\u00a0 <\/strong>07:43<br \/>\nright. right. right.<\/p>\n<p><strong>david bergstein\u00a0 <\/strong>07:44<br \/>\nanybody. or could be thompson, cch.<\/p>\n<p><strong>steven sacks\u00a0 <\/strong>07:47<br \/>\nright. no, you&#8217;re right.<\/p>\n<p><strong>david bergstein\u00a0 <\/strong>07:50<br \/>\ni&#8217;m with you, in the fact that we need people to become cpas. what&#8217;s going to get them to become cpas? the only thing that&#8217;s really gonna get them to come cpas is how much money can i make? number one. and is it an exciting career? and what&#8217;s the cost of entry? i can say cost of entry, first. exciting career, salary. pick any one of those three or four or five, you know, lifestyle, whatever you want it to be. but nobody&#8217;s going to choose accounting as a career if they don&#8217;t see positive waves in elementary school, high school, on tv. you know, they see stereotypes, people carrying cases. it&#8217;s not going to stimulate anyone to become an accountant. accountants have to tell people that it&#8217;s a great career. because it affords you a lot of opportunities. and once you have that cpa after your name, you don&#8217;t have to be in public. you can be in private. why should i go to school and become an accountant, if i can&#8217;t make good money, i can&#8217;t have a good lifestyle, and everyone says it&#8217;s dull and boring? it&#8217;s not dull and boring if you make it more exciting.<\/p>\n<p><strong>steven sacks\u00a0 <\/strong>09:08<br \/>\nyeah, but don&#8217;t put the onus on the individual to do that. he has to go into or she has to go into a firm in which they are devoted to encouraging personal growth and professional growth. that&#8217;s why put the onus on the firms to either fund completely or help defray the costs of this additional so-called necessary fifth year. otherwise, bag it. because you know what, david, you and i know a lot of top professionals in the profession who only have four years. so they&#8217;re not worse for wear. let&#8217;s think this through before we start.<\/p>\n<p><strong>david bergstein\u00a0 <\/strong>09:46<br \/>\ni&#8217;m agreeing with you and to not belabor it much longer. i agree 100 percent with the fifth year, if there is a fifth year.\u00a0 and again this new fifth year that&#8217;s coming out all of a sudden by aicpa and nasba, which will probably get me in trouble, because i&#8217;m saying it: is to keep the five years, to keep the mobility in place within all the states, which i believe we need mobility in all the states. so this fifth-year program now is a fifth-year program in name only, as i look at it. it&#8217;s not really going to college to get a fifth year. it&#8217;s achieve these 30 extra credits in a different manner. so why not just achieve the 30 extra credits by working for a small firm, a medium firm, a large firm, and taking strategic courses, management courses.<\/p>\n<p><strong>steven sacks\u00a0 <\/strong>09:48<br \/>\ntake their firm&#8217;s worskshops.<\/p>\n<p><strong>david bergstein\u00a0 <\/strong>10:37<br \/>\ntaking them online. taking them in a mixed mode. or have the accounting firm do it itself. we conducted these hours&#8217; worth of training to meet a fifth-year requirement.<\/p>\n<p><strong>steven sacks\u00a0 <\/strong>10:56<br \/>\nexactly. if you want to really have true professionals out there that can help your firm grow, don&#8217;t give them more of the same debits and credits. so i think we i think we all agree on this. so in closing, david, any final thoughts that you have on this? if we were to fast forward a year or two from now where do you think profession is going to be?<\/p>\n<p><strong>david bergstein\u00a0 <\/strong>11:20<br \/>\ni think, a year or two from now we&#8217;ll see that there&#8217;s going to be a master list of prescribed events or courses from nasba and aicpa, that this is the type of program you can take to achieve you a fifth year. and it doesn&#8217;t necessarily have to be sponsored by a college. so everyone can get their fifth year by taking these courses, which either the firms will fund, or the firms will provide, through an educational institution, through any accrediting body that they&#8217;re gonna accredit. they&#8217;re gonna accredit to do it, because that&#8217;s what they&#8217;re gonna do. but still, we&#8217;re not going to attract people, unless we make it exciting, unless we make it:\u00a0 hey, there&#8217;s dollars and cents that if you&#8217;re choosing a career, this is the career to choose. because it&#8217;s going to be functional for the next 50 years, no matter what happens with technology. everyone needs numbers. so we&#8217;re gonna combine a lot of these courses with ai, data analysis, data analytics, so you know how to be able to strategically explain to your clients what they can do to achieve their success.<\/p>\n<p><strong>steven sacks\u00a0 <\/strong>12:37<br \/>\nwhere&#8217;s the market going? what skill sets are needed? how do we match it up with the education?\u00a0 finally, we don&#8217;t want to have kids to say, i can&#8217;t afford this, i&#8217;m not going to profession. so we&#8217;re gonna say, you meet certain criteria that we need to come in our firm, we&#8217;ll help you, we&#8217;ll pay you. we&#8217;ll give you the types of necessary courses you should be getting in that fifth year, but you&#8217;re going to get it within our culture, with our professionals teaching. and with that, i&#8217;m going to go let you play pickleball. so thanks for always providing your insightful input.<\/p>\n<p><strong>david bergstein\u00a0 <\/strong>13:13<br \/>\ni appreciate you having me and i think the world is changing and i sort of think we&#8217;re gonna start to see more people come into accounting, but hopefully that&#8217;ll be the case.<\/p>\n","protected":false},"excerpt":{"rendered":"<p><strong>what if pipeline issues aren&#8217;t related to education or experience, but rather just image?<\/strong><br \/>\n<img loading=\"lazy\" decoding=\"async\" class=\"alignnone wp-image-119551\" src=\"\/\/www.g005e.com\/wp-content\/uploads\/2023\/11\/undefined-low-18-424x239.gif\" alt=\"\" width=\"250\" height=\"141\" srcset=\"\/\/www.g005e.com\/wp-content\/uploads\/2023\/11\/undefined-low-18-424x239.gif 424w, \/\/www.g005e.com\/wp-content\/uploads\/2023\/11\/undefined-low-18-300x169.gif 300w\" sizes=\"auto, (max-width: 250px) 100vw, 250px\" \/><br \/>\n<em>with steven sacks<\/em><\/p>\n","protected":false},"author":1892,"featured_media":119551,"comment_status":"open","ping_status":"closed","sticky":false,"template":"","format":"standard","meta":{"_acf_changed":false,"_relevanssi_hide_post":"","_relevanssi_hide_content":"","_relevanssi_pin_for_all":"","_relevanssi_pin_keywords":"","_relevanssi_unpin_keywords":"","_relevanssi_related_keywords":"","_relevanssi_related_include_ids":"","_relevanssi_related_exclude_ids":"","_relevanssi_related_no_append":"","_relevanssi_related_not_related":"","_relevanssi_related_posts":"","_relevanssi_noindex_reason":"","footnotes":""},"categories":[1362,2734,3120,3002,2297,2764],"tags":[643,715],"class_list":["post-119528","post","type-post","status-publish","format-standard","has-post-thumbnail","hentry","category-featured-video","category-podcast","category-pro-member-exclusive","category-special","category-staffing","category-video","tag-hiring","tag-jobs"],"acf":[],"yoast_head":"<!-- this site is optimized with the yoast seo plugin v24.0 - https:\/\/yoast.com\/wordpress\/plugins\/seo\/ -->\n<title>150 hours revisited: the profession needs a facelift - 卡塔尔世界杯常规比赛时间<\/title>\n<meta name=\"description\" content=\"actionable intelligence for tax, accounting, and financial professionals\" \/>\n<meta name=\"robots\" content=\"index, follow, max-snippet:-1, max-image-preview:large, max-video-preview:-1\" \/>\n<link rel=\"canonical\" href=\"\/\/www.g005e.com\/2023\/10\/01\/150-hours-revisited-the-profession-needs-a-facelift\/\" \/>\n<meta property=\"og:locale\" content=\"en_us\" \/>\n<meta property=\"og:type\" content=\"article\" \/>\n<meta property=\"og:title\" content=\"150 hours revisited: the profession needs a facelift - 卡塔尔世界杯常规比赛时间\" \/>\n<meta property=\"og:description\" content=\"actionable intelligence for tax, accounting, and financial professionals\" \/>\n<meta property=\"og:url\" content=\"\/\/www.g005e.com\/2023\/10\/01\/150-hours-revisited-the-profession-needs-a-facelift\/\" \/>\n<meta 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