kristen lewis: why ‘bold’ wins in accounting | capstone conversations

capstone conversations
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with jean caragher
for 卡塔尔世界杯常规比赛时间

in a business not always comfortable with notoriety, it takes bold ideas to position an accounting firm in the marketplace, according to kristen lewis, managing director in charge of marketing at eisneramper and a member of the association for accounting marketing hall of fame.

follow jean caragher on 卡塔尔世界杯常规比赛时间 here. | get her best-selling handbook, the 90-day marketing plan for cpa firms, here | find jean caragher’s capstone conversations every monday here. | catch jean caragher every friday with gear up for growth here |

“cpa firms are conservative,” lewis tells jean caragher in this episode of capstone conversations. “they’re compliance-driven environments. they generally want to see what other people are doing before they take a leap. and that makes the bold ideas that will help differentiate you a harder sell.”

 

takeaways:

• how the eisneramper marketing team became an online machine.
• what she learned about herself and her team from the pandemic.
• the biggest challenge in marketing an accounting firm. (one you’ve heard before.)
• the rise of content marketing and its tie to the change in technology.

about kristen lewis

kristen lewis is the managing director of eisneramper’s marketing group and is responsible for national strategic initiatives such as industry marketing strategy, the firm’s new york and philadelphia regional marketing efforts, and the firm’s national real estate services practice.

she works to design and implement strategic growth initiatives, build strong niche practices, foster a positive marketing culture, pursue strategic alliances, and help develop the firm’s next generation of market leaders. kristen has experience with research, campaign and content development, communications, and pipeline management. she manages the firm’s marketing representatives, consults on go-to-market strategy across all segments, and leads the marketing workstream for the firm’s diversity, equity and inclusion (dei) initiative.

an award-winning marketer, kristen has written articles for cpa practice management forum and the picpa and spoken at aicpa and aam events. she has prior corporate communications experience in the nonprofit and real estate industries. kristen serves as a committee member and task force chair for the association for accounting marketing (aam), where she previously served as the organization’s president. most recently, kristen was inducted into the aam hall of fame, the highest honor in the field of accounting marketing. she is a past recipient of aam’s volunteer of the year award. kristen also serves on the marketing committee for the annual pact capital conference.

kristen graduated magna cum laude from the university of pennsylvania with a bachelor’s degree in communications.

 

transcript
(not edited)

jean caragher 

hello. this is jean caragher, president of capstone marketing. i am thrilled to be talking today with kristen lewis, director of marketing at eisner amper, and the most recent inductee into the association for accounting marketing hall of fame. now inductees need to have a minimum of 10 years of experience in the profession and service to the profession, as well as to the association for accounting marketing. and kristin certainly fills this description. she started her accounting marketing career in 1999 as a marketing coordinator at goldenberg rosenthal in philadelphia. so here’s a woman. she’s got more than 20 years experience in this industry. at eisner, amper kristin is responsible for the firm’s marketing initiatives in philadelphia and new york, so two big markets, as well as some firm, wide strategic initiatives. in her service to aim. kristin was named the aim volunteer of the year in 2009 she served on the board from 2010 to 2018, serving as president from in 2016 2017. and she’s also chaired and served on several committees, including the communications committee, the content assessment task force, and most recently, the diversity equity and inclusion initiative. so kristin, congratulations on being inducted into the aim hall of fame. oh, thank you so much. thank you for having me now. i understand there was a celebratory dinner afterwards, because kristen was there live at the summit when she received this award. and were you surprised?

 

kristen lewis 

i was 100% surprised. and my, my loved ones from my, my loved ones from my my day job from my aim job from my, my life. apparently, they were all conspiring against me lie to get me to the to the ceremony, because i was originally just going to be a virtual attendee with, you know, for the policies that we have right now around conferences. so yeah, and like thinking back, it’s like, when you see one of those movies and the big twist is revealed, and you’re like, oh, that’s, that’s how that happened. but yeah, they just, they got me there, they lied, and i’m oblivious, and i just went for it. so yeah, it was, it was a shock. and, you know, a good shock. and just to be mentioned with some of those folks, like people who have taught me and mentored me and meant so much to me, like, it’s still, it’s still amazing that i’m on that list. so yeah, well, it’s very well deserved. and lauren could barely get the words out because she she was so emotional. so it was all, it was all just perfect.

 

jean caragher 

so we’ve been talking a lot about covid and a lot about this pandemic, right? so we’re going on 15 months now. so tell us about, you know, just one of the ways that you’ve had to transition. you know, i hate using this cliche word pivot. tell me how you’ve kind of changed up an aspect of the firm’s marketing program due to the pandemic.

 

kristen lewis 

well, i think the the biggest thing is probably just the the online pivot for all of our programming. you know, we’ve always done some webinars, but we were a very heavy in person events shop, a lot of networking, a lot of folks in a conference room, and just just hands on relationship building. and i think we had done one program on our brand new on 24 platform when the evacuation order came down that out of the offices, like, who? okay, we had done like a small, a small webinar at that point on on 24 i’m just shocked at how quickly we were able to change things up. we became an online machine. and just everything that we were doing, we were able to make national in scope, because the borders fell away. you’re not worried about ordering bagels for people in different places. so it was a it became an opportunity for more people to get engaged. we figured out how to do some virtual networking, which was probably the the biggest thing that had to be taken out of our usual play in terms of market approach and, you know, and nothing was the same, of course, you know, we’re we were just trying new things, but we found different kinds of wins. and if i could say anything about that whole march of the virtual programming more online really resulted in an elevation of the work we had been doing as content marketers, and just an increased appreciation of the role that that foglet leadership plays in building relationships and establishing our brand and all the rest. i mean, there was no other game in town. so it was, it was helpful just to spotlight all of the hard work that goes into those things. it wasn’t just, oh, it’s nice that we have all these articles. it was like, oh, wait a minute, this is an engine for growth. we’re getting leads. we’re following up on them. we’re scheduling virtual meetings, etc. so it really helped establish that we weren’t just the people who bring you into a room and wine you and dine you. we were helping you with legitimate solutions for your business and thought leadership and all the rest of it, even in a virtual environment. so yeah, it was a big change, if there was ever a moment to lift the credibility of accounting marketers. this past year was absolutely it. yeah for such an opportunity. oh yeah, yeah, for sure, online networking, kudos. um, you know, i’ve worked with some clients on that, because i don’t believe a lot of that is going on. i think there’s lots of cpas out there who are thinking we got out of this, you know, requirement to network. i don’t like doing that anyway, so the firms that are doing it are definitely going to reap the rewards. yeah, and i think that one of the ways that we’ve approached it to is to change it up. so, you know, we started, let’s have some virtual networking rooms before, after a webinar to talk about, you know, what are you seeing in your businesses? best practices, doing smaller, sort of round tables. and then, okay, how do we have fun now, now that we’ve done that, and people are a little bit bored, being on a zoom call, what do we do a cooking class? do we have, you know, do we have people talk about wines or art or, you know, a number of different topics? and that’s the way you can build those relationships and have a little bit of fun, even when you can’t be together.

 

jean caragher 

absolutely. and what’s been the reaction to that?

 

kristen lewis 

i’m mostly pretty positive activities, mostly, mostly positive. and i think, you know, we found differing levels of engagement. you know, it can be hard to learn how to do these things virtually. when you’re, you’re one of those folks who just like jumps in a room, and you’re, you’re shaking hands, and you’re making things happen. you’re not shaking hands, you’re not necessarily making things happen in the same way, but you are building those sorts of relationships that become something additional. so for the most part, it’s been positive. i think people just weighing, like, what’s the balance? and we will continue to do some of those things going forward, for certain. but, you know, we’re also raring to go to to, you know, get back in room with people, because we love that, yes, and actually being face to face with people, right? and even without a mask, right? i know, i know kent. i’m looking forward to that too, for sure. so through this crisis and your firm’s response to the crisis and how you’ve done things a bit differently, what have you learned about your firm, or your colleagues or yourself, does something kind of rise to the top. you know, i’ve been really proud of just the resiliency i’ve seen in our team, our marketing team, and just the broader firm. we really stuck together and figure things out on the fly. we like to use the term, terminology. you know, we built the car while we’re driving it. i think this sort of proved to us we can do hard things, we can do new things, and we can also push ourselves and others, our colleagues, to do things that are kind of scary. you know, it’s a lesson i learned from myself too. there were times when we launched something new, like our first attempts at virtual networking, or, you know, big national summit, you have to face down a lot of your fear and anxiety after you sold them on this idea, like i talked people into this thing, oh, god, we learned lessons along the way, but they weren’t massive failures, and, you know, we were pretty much rewarded for most of the new things that we tried. so it was a great lesson for the individuals on our team. is a great lesson for me to just go for it, and also, you know, for our firm, like, okay, let’s trust them with this stuff. like, we’re not sure. we’re not sure at first, but you know what? we’re making it happen, and we’re seeing some value from it, right? yeah, because, i think, you know, even as marketers, we can sometimes, you know, get stuck in our little space and how we do things and what we do, and it’s good to, you know, get tossed out there, so to speak, to try something new and different. that makes you a little get you a little nervous, but that’s, you know, that’s also the desire to grow, right? and so we need to continually learn new skills as well, yeah, and if anything, that’s, you know, it has not been a wonderful time, just the i’ve been, just the connectivity, the productivity. i know we always want to be productive in what we do, but just the way, even, even the broader firm, like the practitioners, the ability to get a new we had to set, like, new standards for everything we were doing, changing the model. and this is against a backdrop of loss and fear and sickness and uncertainty in the world. and just i it’s kind of people call me sentimental sometimes, but i’m on meetings because i always take time out to thank the team, like i’ve always done that. but i get, i get a little bit sappy these days, because i’m like, you know, 15 months guys, we’ve been moving mountains, and you know, we should always be grateful for what’s going on, but just seeing it in action can be pretty inspirational, right?

 

jean caragher 

absolutely. yeah, i so let’s, let’s step away from the pandemic, you know, for a minute. and as i said, you began your career in 1999 so this is over 20 years kristen, so what do you think is the greatest challenge in marketing an accounting firm?

 

kristen lewis 

well, my answer to this question is probably going to be different whatever day you ask me, so i’ve been around to see those challenges. yes. again, why? but, you know, i feel like one of the biggest challenges that we have to face, you know, as marketers for accounting firms, is just getting down to, like, true differentiation. it can be a really tough concept, you know, identifying how you are uniquely different from another firm, and how do you communicate that in a genuine way that’s going to resonate with the market. sometimes that that feeling butts up against the nature of a cpa firm. you know, it’s it makes it harder because cpa firms are conservative. they’re compliance driven environments. they generally want to see what other people are doing before they take a leap sometimes. and you know, that makes the bold ideas that maybe will help differentiate you. sometimes they’re a harder sell. but i think we’ve all been making especially in this environment. i think we’ve been making strides there, and building up that trust helps you have those genuine conversations as a marketer and just as a team member, as you’re putting together your strategic plan to figure out, how do we say something that’s different from everybody else, and how does that translate into something that’s going to benefit that client? what’s, what’s their real world experience that we can impact? right?

 

jean caragher 

absolutely. and you know, over the years, you’re not the first one to mention this challenge. so it’s real.

 

kristen lewis 

yeah, that’s the old field story. like you send the partner to the meeting with the proposal, and they’re like, oh, they told me that they want good service. they want i’m like, did you listen or did you ask questions? it’s not against them. it is very difficult to get down and, like, ask those questions. and like, you know, you gotta have to go spelunking to get to what the difference is. exactly, exactly, it is a challenge, but the smart firms continue to work at it, yeah, for sure. for me, that’s the bottom line, you know, because let’s face it, there are folks out there that, you know, just don’t really think any, any of that is important. they want the work. and you know what we do and and, of course, they do. but a prospect also wants to know, you know what. what’s my experience going to be like working with this firm? you know what? why would i select them over another firm? you know, it’s all extremely important.

 

jean caragher 

so if you look over, let’s say, the past 10 years, what do you think has been the biggest change in accounting, marketing?

 

kristen lewis 

yeah, you know that. i think the rise of content marketing in terms of its importance, and that’s 100% tied into the change in technology, you know, marketing automation, the web tools we can use now, the rise of serious social media strategy. i mean, 10 years ago, was like, should we get this account? like, what are we doing? like, do we want to tweet? what’s tweet? you know, and the partners would make bird jokes, and you laugh along with them, but, but i remember the days when we at a summit and one of the members said, yeah, then people are going to be able to search the web and find you. we were like, what it just they’re gonna find but monumental changes. oh, yeah. and just, like rapid, like, just the rapid, the rapid advancements, like, you can’t keep on top of this stuff, and it’s a whole new ball game. the the really good thing about this is not just that there are new platforms to reach people and reach people in a dynamic way. you can really get segmented with with the technology that’s going on, but it’s also given us more metrics that we can, you know, plan better, adjust our strategy. in the middle, prove our concepts. there’s still, you know, there’s still the the fuzzy element of the anecdote in terms of direct causation, because, you know, i’ve, i’ve got a drip campaign going to this, this guy for a year, and then he has lunch with one bd. and finally, we’re great. is it the lunch? is it that he got the lunch because my campaign program worked well, like it’s it’s all inter interconnected a bit, but this gives us a little bit more science around how we are interacting with the audience, at large, clients, prospects, the greater business community. and it’s really helping us, you know, have a stronger foundation and grounding in the data and really that interaction intelligence that helps us make important decisions about where we invest our time and our efforts, because we all know that’s both of those things are very limited, right?

 

jean caragher 

and don’t you think that having that data gains more traction with the partners. oh, you can see numbers, right?

 

kristen lewis 

yeah, spreadsheet. i mean, sometimes, sometimes that ends up, you know, with someone trying to dissect your numbers, which is also fun. but you know what it is? is it gives you additional credibility to where i had a partner. last week, i had a meeting with this partner i don’t work with that much, who quoted back a statistic i said in some meeting, like three weeks ago. and i’m like, oh, my god, you were paying attention. he’s like, well, you know, you used a number. and i’m like, yeah, okay, good. well, then i’m making my points. and i’m making my points because i’m relating it to something that’s a little bit more tangible. and, you know, the success driven, you can see a result?

 

jean caragher 

yes, yes, absolutely. so which factor or which one of your skills has contributed to making you a successful marketer?

 

kristen lewis 

oh, boy, um, is where i get nervous talking about myself. great. now, you know, i think one of the biggest things for me is probably i see, i see connections and connections in terms of, how do i, how do i put people and resources together, whether it’s to solve a problem or, you know, make make a situation better, and all of that, i think, stems from communication, and that’s not just writing or speaking. i really think that true communication is grounded in listening and being able to effectively sit back, read a room, ask questions. i mean, as marketers, it’s really important for us to develop a rapport with our internal clients. you know, the partners, the managers and everyone else asking those questions about,

 

jean caragher 

what are you seeing? how are you experiencing things? what are the clients telling you?

 

kristen lewis 

and just trying to figure out, what are they willing to do? how are they willing to participate in that process. what their drivers are? some people are really focused on comp. other people just, you know, they want to be recognized for the work that they’re doing. then we have to translate those, those sorts of concepts into the real world. so whether it’s positioning my my business plan for an initiative so that my partners will will say, yeah, that’s seems good, okay? or if it’s figuring out, what are they saying on the technical side, and then how is a person in the real world who is not a cpa, but who may buy their services, how are they going to take that and find value in it? so, you know, being being a listener, and then i guess, a translator to figure out how to get those messages out. that’s that’s helped me immensely,

 

jean caragher 

right? and, you know, the that was a great answer, and it just emphasized the importance of being able to get back together in person. because when you talk about, you know, reading a room and all of that, you know, you. seeing people you know online, but it’s not the same, right? you’re not seeing as much of the body language and all of that to be able to interpret, you know what they’re thinking. yeah,

 

kristen lewis 

you can, and you can tell too when they’re when when you’re virtual. one of the other struggles that we have is that people have four screens, and there may be something very exciting or terrible or something going on on a different screen. but you know that that focus on like, let’s solve the problem at hand, and let’s have like, a genuine dialog back and forth. instead of, you know, ticking a mark, like, right? we got the meeting done. let’s have a genuine exchange exactly,

 

jean caragher 

exactly focus, right? be present, right? is that the term, let’s focus on one thing at a time.

 

kristen lewis 

oh, sadly.

 

jean caragher 

so what would be your best piece of advice for other accounting marketers?

 

kristen lewis 

oh, boy, my best piece of advice well beyond just like knowing your stuff. because i think you know lifelong learning and curiosities is hugely important. it’s not just about what’s going on in your firm, but you need to know that stuff. it’s like the outside world. but i do think that the marketers game is really about expectations. it’s about setting them, managing them, and then exceeding them, doing your best to exceed them. so when you’re setting those expectations with leadership and just with everybody on the team at all levels, what are those priorities and focus areas and how is that going to roll up to your firm’s strategy? you know, this is where you can say, hey guys, this this doesn’t make any sense. why are we pursuing this? and it doesn’t. our firm is not trying to grow that area. why are we doing this thing? a lot of energy gets wasted, just like randomly going out and doing things at an accounting firm. and i can say that because it’s been 20 years. so as we’ve made great progress, you know, i remember at the beginning of my career would be like, just, just do this program for this guy, get get him, get him happy

 

jean caragher 

be an order taker, right? yeah, and don’t think strategically. just do things

 

kristen lewis 

it’ll make him feel happy, cool. i don’t know. is that good for the firm. so identifying that and figuring out, you know what the plan should be around that, and what your results are going to be, and what those success factors, by the way, are for everyone involved. so you can’t, like, have a plan and then have it be on the marketers to implement every element of it that everybody’s got to have skin in the game and a role and something to do if they’re going to claim the success or just be a part of it. so they’re setting expectations there’s managing those expectations, which is hugely important, and that’s really where your rapport can break down if you’re not a good communicator, you know, are you reporting about progress? are you having regular communication in the right language? so how you speak to a member of your team is going to be different depending on their level or what they’re doing with the project, etc. and then those accountability measures we’re talking about, like, you don’t want to be left holding the bag as a marketer when something doesn’t go well, because maybe the team didn’t have buy in, or they just, they just rubber stamped it and said, yeah, that that seems like a nice campaign. you know, go off and do that. you don’t want that to be happening either. and then finally, for marketers, is that exceeding expectations? i know we talk about that a lot, you know, how can i, how can i go out there and kick butt and look great? but you know, we really have to go the extra mile in what we do. and, you know, marketers, i love our energy, and we’ve got great ideas. and when we go the extra mile, we can be very, very extra which, you know, it’s, it’s, it’s good, and it’s fun. but you know, if you, if you approach these things like the cpas do, if you act like an owner, because you are owning it, it’s if it has to do with marketing, you should be owning it. what’s going on with it? you’re going to be successful. they’re going to see your passion, and that makes people want to work with you that much more, right?

 

jean caragher 

for sure. so then, what would be your piece of advice for managing partners, and depending on the day for that one as well.

 

kristen lewis 

no, i think just, you know, the importance of, you know, bringing your marketer in. i think bring them to the table, bring them in early and often to have these sort of conversations. they can really help build and implement your strategic plan beyond like the pure marketing and sales aspects of those you know, how are you addressing issues that are in the zeitgeist? all of this has to do with your firm’s brand. what’s that experience you’re putting out there into the universe? and marketers also help you explore new approaches to problems you may have you may not think that that we have a certain expertise, and we may not, but we may ask a question that’ll give you a great idea. i know sometimes we’re brought in a little late, when a major decision has already been made, and we’re trying to implement a plan that we didn’t really help build, and that’s not just frustrating for the marketer, but ultimately less successful for the firm. yeah, so i want to caution to marketing is not the answer to every problem. but, you know, that’s it’s it’s tied into so much and the value and perspective we talk a lot about, how do we, you know, bring in multi multi disciplinary teams to do a really great job on an engagement. it’s kind of the same approach you want to do as you build your firm, bring in those different perspectives, and they’re going to help you build a solid plan that gets stuff done right for sure.

 

jean caragher 

well, now we know why kristen was inducted into the aim hall of fame. this was so fun, kristen, thank you. so i’ve been talking with kristen lewis, director of marketing at eisner amper, and the most recent inductee into the aim hall of fame. very well deserved. kristen, congratulations again, and thank you for your time today.

 

kristen lewis 

thank you so much, jean. i appreciate it. you.

 

posted on october 20, 2024