your eq is just as important as your iq. and seven more take-aways.
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the disruptors
with liz farr for 卡塔尔世界杯常规比赛时间
peter margaritis, who also calls himself the accidental accountant, grew up in the gregarious environment of restaurants, “where everybody communicated, not well, sometimes, but they communicated.” so it was a shock when he went to work at price waterhouse, and he “felt that all the air got sucked out of the office, and nobody was communicating at all, and they looked at me like i was crazy.”
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his crusade for the last decade or so has been to help accountants improve what we often call soft skills, but which he calls power skills: the ability to communicate clearly and effectively with others. “there’s nothing that will slow you down more in your career than a poorly written memo or email or a presentation that you were poorly prepared for,” margaritis said.
thanks to technology, “we’re not bean counters anymore. we’re communicators. we’re collaborators. we’re advisors,” he added. however, margaritis said the training for new hires today is 100% on technical skills – which we do need to make sure the information is flowing correctly through our software. then after five years, we promote them to manager without any training in how to deal with people.
“and either they leave, they crash and burn, or maybe they just happen to do well,” he said. margaritis advocates for weaving in additional leadership skills over those first few years so newer hires “have a bigger bounce” when they become managers.
seven more takeaways from peter margaritis
- if your firm is having a hard time attracting talent, it might be that the culture hasn’t changed in decades. people want to be treated well, to be respected and to be heard, and to be in a collaborative, embracing culture.
- accountants speak the foreign language of business called accounting. we’re not dumbing the information down when we translate it by putting the information into a context our clients understand.
- when you give a presentation, you will make mistakes, but nine times out of ten, you will be the only one who knows you made a mistake. don’t focus on the mistakes, but keep going. park those mistakes in the back of your mind to assess later.
- tell your inner critic to sit in the corner when you’re giving a presentation.
- accountants need training in emotional intelligence. many cpas are not aware of how they come across to others, and may be brash or arrogant. but to build business relationships, we need to come across as helpful and inclusive.
- pay attention to how many times you use “i” versus how many times you use “we.” when you use “we” or “us” more, you’ll see a change in the way others look at you.
- at many firms, the culture prevents anyone from wanting to become a partner. people want to work at places that are challenging, fun and inspiring, not like working in a salt mine.
more about peter margaritis, csp, cpa
for peter margaritis, his passion is simple; he loves to make people laugh and he’s felt that way for as far back as he can remember. that love to make people laugh took him down the path of performing stand-up comedy. it was an incredible learning journey for him, and he learned that the stand-up lifestyle wasn’t something he wanted to pursue long-term. then came the life-changing discovery of improv comedy. improv was mind-blowing for margaritis, not because of the humor aspects. it was because the teachings of improv aligned so strongly with the development of leadership skills.
this discovery — that leadership and improv go hand in hand — came later in his career, after margaritis had worked for organizations like barnett bank and citizens and southern national bank as a consumer and commercial lender and after he had graduated from case western reserve university with a master’s in accountancy. this discovery of improv occurred during the years when margaritis worked at price waterhouse, victoria’s secret catalogue (not as a model!), and gap inc. direct.
when margaritis left the corporate world for academia, the three worlds collided: business, stand-up and improv. in front of a classroom, his passion reached nirvana. margaritis was able to draw upon his accounting knowledge and deliver it engagingly and humorously. you heard that right — margaritis uses humor to teach accounting, and the students love it.
margaritis currently teaches and entertains students at oklahoma state university spears school of business.
transcript
(transcripts are made available as soon as possible. they are not fully edited for grammar or spelling.)
liz farr
welcome to accounting disrupter conversations. i’m your host liz farr from cpa trend lines. my guest today is peter margaritis, founder and ceo of the accidental accountant and director of the school of accounting communication center at oklahoma state university. how are you today, peter?
peter margaritis
well, as i say, at oklahoma state, go pokes!
liz farr
go pokes, right.
peter margaritis
i’m doing great. i’m happy that you invited me to be on this podcast with you.
liz farr
oh, great. well, you know, i met you at a key still keynote speech at the new mexico society of cpas. number of years ago, so a number of years ago. that’s right. yeah. yeah. so it’s, it’s cool to actually be able to do a podcast with you. yes, sir. okay. well, accounting talent has been scarce for years. covid, and the great resignation made it worse. what are your ideas on how to make things better?
peter margaritis
well, my first question is why is talent scarce? because we see that the prior to covid that accounting programs accounting across the united states were all path the pipeline was full. so my thought is, is it’s scarce because of the culture of the organization, the culture of the firm, is that that culture from the 70s and 80s. you know, i still remember when i left pricewaterhouse, i got my review, and wasn’t kind of up to the others. but i’m not a five out of five, but the percentage was much lower. and i went into the tax partner and asked him why. and this is what he said to me almost verbatim. pete, you know, we had you had a case western reserve, we hired you at a premium. now we’re going to take that premium and amortize over the next three years to get you in line with everybody else. okay, so the accounting view can be what can be an amortized, i’m not even a tangible asset, i would have been depreciated. i’m an intangible object. and he saw the look on my face. and he said, well think about another job facebook look for. he said that, because about three or four months later, i came back and i got i accepted an offer to go work for victoria’s secret catalog. and he was mad. and i said, don’t you remember what you said it was? yeah, i didn’t think you’d take me up on it. said, sir. there’s a lot of people out there who are just like me, and waiting to take you up on that offer to find something else. so i need to culture, the organization, the culture, your organization has to change. and part of this culture and its nature is we hire these people who are very smart. and we grow them over a period of time. but trust your people, ask them what they want. and i know it used to be well, i’m telling you what we’re gonna do in this with this generation, all that just tells them that they’re going to leave and find something else. and we’re not just a number anymore. and we want to be people want to be treated well. people want to be respected, people want to be heard. and i think just it sounds so simple, but it’s so hard is to change that culture into a collaborative culture into a embracing culture, versus one of old school public accounting.
liz farr
that’s, and so how do we make that culture shift?
peter margaritis
i think part of the culture shift is happening because older partners are retiring. younger partners are coming in and see the value of these. i’m gonna call them power skills. right? there, you know, we used to call them soft skills. i used to say, well, they may be called soft skills, but don’t you think the hard to master we can teach anybody accounting class. they taught me accounting, i never thought i’d been an account. so if i can learn this, anybody can learn accounting, they put their mind to it. the harder part is the ability to communicate within a firm and with our clients. and i just came off a very bad incident with my accounting firm, where there was very much a lack of communication with me during the filing season that extended into october that it was a complete break out and the partner meant we’ve had one partner left. the partner came man, communication broke down across all lines. and you know what? i wanted to fire him immediately. but i said, no, i know, color was kind of a little slack and see if they can figure it out going into this next year. but it’s the lack of a lack of effective communication.
liz farr
well, you know, speaking of communication, you know, your your work has been focusing on communication for accountants for as long as i’ve known you. and before that, right? how did you get started on that path?
peter margaritis
good question. so i’m greek american. so i really should be in a restaurant. and i say this as a joke. but honestly, that’s what i went to college, got a bachelor’s in business administration with a concentration, hr, couldn’t find any hr job. so i went back to work at a restaurant, and we were working in restaurants since i was 12 years old. and that was gonna be my path. and i grew up in this very gregarious environment that everybody communicated, not well, sometimes, but they communicated. and i remember when i, when i accepted the offer at price waterhouse, during the during the recruiting time, everybody was talking everybody’s very nice loud check in. and then when i came to work itself, i felt that all the air got sucked out of the office. and nobody was communicating at all. and they looked at me like i was crazy. rightly so. because that was different. but i didn’t understand why we weren’t having better communication with our clients, and communicating better with the staff, then not really communicating with them. and i don’t know how to describe this other than you know, how you make you want to make someone leave. you tell everybody you want to make them leave, and they give them the cold shoulder and they’re like the yeah, and then they get uncomfortable enough until the point that they want to leave which is ridiculous. i’ve ed mendlowitz wrote a wrote a piece for 卡塔尔世界杯常规比赛时间 a few years ago, and is prior to the pandemic going why do you why do you keep people on through busy season when they’re really not when they’re not helping the farm at all the kind of like a cancer, but we keep them on because they’re still breathing and they can still do the work versus cut them loose. replace them, divvy up the work but yeah, so it was it was through that process and period when i saw the lack of communication and my frustration with it, that i started and also my love for improv and that’s my communication tool, the principles of improvisation and just found this unique niche in the profession that most of my work from 2012 through 22 was leadership development type of work, not the technical stuff. which i really enjoy. i like doing the technical like the intro to accounting courses but the hard ticky tacky stuff that’s way outside my paygrade but i love interacting and trying to get cpas realized especially now that technology is doing although we’re not bean counters anymore we’re communicating or collaborate with advisors we have to be technically sound we have to look at the information and go oh this looks right. we have to be technically sound and know whatever i put in the tax return i should be able to look at it go okay, it flows through well. okay, that’s good versus well i just dropped it in the tax return this is what came out was the i didn’t think about through the we still have to use our minds our brains to make sure that the information is sound. however, what i have learned is accountants speak all accountants speak a foreign language and that foreign language is accounting. and i love asking that question because i mean speak a foreign language they get spanish japanese all this. so let me rephrase it. how will you speak the foreign language of business called accounting? everybody laughs i got so when you say depreciation to an accountant, they think that’s the value they lose in the car when they drive off a new car lot and you’re looking at you clever no, no, no, that’s a systematic allocation of an asset over time once we realize we speak a foreign language sales human risk everybody outside of the of our profession, and even recognize that the early birds the new hires a one to five years, they still have the complex knowledge that we have. we still have to be able to translate it to them. i said that to a partner once goes i’m not gonna dumb down the information. you’re not dumbing it down, sir. or ma’am. you’re putting in a context so they can understand. you’re dumbing it down in your own mind, you need to change that mindset. so that’s kind of how this all came about.
liz farr
wow, that’s, that’s a great way to get started. yeah, and i’m sorry that you endured such pain at at pwc. you know, there, there’s almost no big four presence in new mexico. so they weren’t even an option when i finished my degree. now, now, i know that you are director, you just took on a new job as director of the school of accounting communication center at oklahoma state. can you tell me a little bit about how that came about what you’re doing here?
peter margaritis
well, oklahoma state that was a client of mine was a client, i guess anymore, they’re my employer. and they had biden, the book taken the no matter numbers, identity, i got a marketing campaign and sent out, i wanted to get into the university setting, and send out 50 books to 50 accounting chairs throughout the country. and they contacted me and asked, we don’t need you to speak between put your book into our masters of accounting curriculum, and we buy 50 of them from you. okay, love to pandemic hits. and during the pandemic, i did a q&a with the students at the end of the term, which was a lot of fun. and then 2021, they asked me to come and speak to the masters of accounting students, this cohort where it started in august. and i did it and the day of the event, that a video from the dean, and the dean was talking about accounting, and i’m over here inside kind of thinking about my presentation, and i hear accountantants need to have effective communication skills, they need to be self aware, they need to be whatever it is here. that’s from the dean. and he was talking about corn furs, competency levels. and then the chair of the department addressed the students. and she introduced the term power skills, and how effective power skills are. and this is why they brought me in to work with them doing an improv, to learn how to become better communicators. and then in the fall, i spoke at a conference, the fall conference, i was a keynote and i stayed after attending a dinner that night. and i put on an osu quartered zip sweater. after i was done, i took my sport coat off kind of thing and and people make a lot of comments about it. and then one of the the director of professional development there, asked me about the jacket i said, you know, used to be in higher education years ago, i don’t know maybe i might want to get back into it. her eyes got as wide as saucers, found the chair of the department. in the meantime, i’m talking to the dean of the business school, the chair comes over and looks at me go get it, go get a contract or get a contract. he said he might want to come back. so there was a lot of fun. it was it was kind of, you know, made me feel really good. but she contacted me in february, asked me if i was serious. and i said, you know, what, if this was my university, university of kentucky, or if it was case western reserve, or even the ohio state university, i would say no, she was really. i don’t think they get it. but you guys get it. you guys get the fact that we accountants need communication skills. the employers have been asking for for years, academia has not responded. but that’s the kind of way things work in academia. and you want to you want to build something that meets what the market has been asking for. and i love being an entrepreneur. let’s do this. and actually, it was a little bit it’s a little bit of a process. but we wanted to get an august, august, august start. and i learned that i got the job. on july 5. wow. i was here on the last week of july. so within three weeks, and i kind of been planning this because it seemed like somewhat of a short thing. and three weeks later, i was here on ground looking for a place to live getting acclimated getting starting to get the process moving, and then having a blast.
liz farr
well, that’s great. i’m so glad to hear that. yeah, i mean, communication is is something that we really need is accountant. you refer to it as the breakdown between you and your cpa or your tax return. why is it that communication is such an important skill for accountants?
peter margaritis
well, our skill used to be crank out the numbers. and that has evolved. and actually, we should have been better communicators back then. but we’re, you know, we’re always looking for the technical skills, the technical skills, the technical. so i agree we need the technical skills. but i’ve always felt that when you brought a new hire, and we usually get like 100%, technical skills, for the first five years, we throw them in the role of manager, they have no training in how to deal with people. and either they leave, it’s crashes and burns, or maybe they just happen to do well. and they’re quick learners and pull it off. i’m always said, we should at least weave in 10% to those first five years. so when they get to become a manager, they have a bigger bounce, they can, they can start building a business, a book of business. and communication is much more than writing which we all need to become better writers, and presentation skills, which most accountants really need some training on how to present financial information. but it’s also about networking, it’s also about empathy. it’s about emotional intelligence, it’s also about how to negotiate. so there’s these. there’s other schools out there that have similar type of program, but they’re only touch on writing skills and presentation skills. we’re going deeper than that. and we’re trying to find a way we’re discussing ways of how do we how do we award a digital badge? they take a workshop, i just did an active active listening workshop last friday for the master students. and to figure out well do we assign do we give them a digital badge because they were for those who were there, they were there for about an hour and a half. they’ve all pretty much everybody participated. so if we start doing that, then we have to work with the employers see, well, if it’s on my resume, it’s on linkedin. i’ve applied it a better way. so i have a client in cleveland, who i was up in, in nevada was doing his presentation. so i met with her before my thing the next day. and i said, you’ve got two resumes. you have one from the ohio state university and one from oklahoma state university. they have the same grade point average, everything is completely identical. but you notice on the oklahoma state university’s resume, this student this person is recruit as these digital badges for negotiating presentation skills, better business writing, emotional intelligence.
liz farr
how are you going to select?
peter margaritis
she was hands down oklahoma state? because always the other osu doesn’t have that yet. so i don’t want to get ahead of myself. but if we do this thing, right, other others will come. others will figure it out. there’s more to it than just getting a phd in english, critique writing, but what i hear what i’ve heard a lot of us what really, we don’t need to make sure we’re apa citation. perfect. we need to make sure that we show a source of what we’re doing. but we don’t need to write academically, we don’t need to write like a dissertation. we need to write business people.
liz farr
yeah, yeah. and, you know, i spent enough time in academia, and as a cpa, to know that the kinds of writing that you do in academia and the kinds of writing you do as a cpa corresponding with the irs, is really not what you need to connect with the clients. with people. it’s just, it’s a very different thing.
peter margaritis
it is a very different thing, the thing that i’m still trying to get my arms around, we do have a course on interpersonal skills at the university level course, we do have business communication course as a 300 level course. but i hear from from the accounting faculty, the neck, that knowledge that they get they’re not using that later, it’s like, we never had this, we forgot. and when we’re trying to figure out well, why is that? but i’m here to collaborate not to duplicate. so i’m also trying to use the resources that are already out there and say, we’ve got those set in stone. i’m not here to change anything that you guys are doing. but just you’re setting a foundation and we’ll build the rest of the house.
liz farr
so, yeah, i think that’s, i think it’s a great plan and it shows a lot of vision, their side,
peter margaritis
i would be remissed i would be truly remiss if i did not give credit where credit’s due. this idea was the brainchild of dr. audrey grambling, who is the former head of the accounting program. this was her idea she wanted to launch it in 2020. well see what happened there. and we’ve lost it this year. and i would not be here doing this if it wasn’t for her idea, as well as the dean dean, ken eastman, he had reprove it. and he had had support around that. so there’s a lot of critics around but definitely do under grambling and ken eastman for their support in this program.
liz farr
that’s fantastic. now, what are some ways that accountants can improve their communication skills?
peter margaritis
ever bake a cake? it’s kind of messy when you kind of bake it right? flour here, spilled milk over there, y’all stuff all over for wearing an apron. but then when you put it in, and you bring it up, oh, this looks really nice. communication is messy, especially written communication. and the challenges that i’m hearing from employers here at oklahoma, and i’ve heard it in ohio and other places, is that kids come out and they write like they’re text messaging. and for those of you who are recently out of school, you need a business writing course. because that’s not the way we communicate, and invest in yourself. if you’re, if your firm doesn’t believe that it’s important that you need to invest in yourself, because it’s extremely important the way you write and how you write as well as i always ask if you want to become a better presenter, start with toastmasters. there, they’ll teach you on how to write a speech as we used to call they still call the speech and they will knock the ums and ahhs right out here by the second time you do it. but it goes to your credibility. and, and, and, and take a moment before you send any type of correspondence and read it out loud. yeah, don’t just sent, huh, never really the right thing to do. oh, and invest in some? what’s the l grammarly to, to at least check your grammar and your spelling and your common usage and so on and so forth. there’s nothing that will slow you down in your career than a poor memo, a poor email or poor presentation that you weren’t prepared for. so seek out these opportunities. seek seek out this type of training, ask your firm to to bring people in, who can bring people in who are who are who are in the cpa profession, like yourself, myself. jennifer elder or carl rx. the aicpa has a number of us in the speaking group and, and bring us into to help your people become better communicators. and you might want to think about taking it to if you’re a partner. you made it to partner, but things are different. and we need we all need. we all need to learn how to write better and i’m not an english major. i’m not a journalism major. i’m just a guy who just had some things he wanted to get out and say so i i, i put it down on paper, i edit go through it and i have other people read it and make suggestions on it. i get input from others, especially if it’s important.
liz farr
well, those are all really good ideas. and i especially like your recommendation to join toastmasters was about maybe a year ago, i guess. i was invited to join a virtual toastmasters group. it was originally out of st. paul, minnesota. and now we’ve got members who are from coast to coast. there’s some in california and there’s somebody in new jersey. and there’s another accountant in there who brought me in was the one that brought me in and we just have a lot of fun. it’s a great organization.
peter margaritis
let me ask this question. the first time you went in the first time you have to stand up and do it presentation or sit down, however, the case might be virtually? how nervous were you?
liz farr
you know, the very first time i spoke in that group, they just asked if somebody wanted to give a trigger speech. and i said, well, sure, i’ll give one. so i hadn’t really, really thought about it. but i just talked, and it was okay. but i do remember, a number of years ago, i, the state side of cpas, in new mexico, had joined up with the a bunch of firms around to do sort of a master class of all the things that a new staff members should know all the technical stuff. and so i got drafted to give a four hour course, on compensation. and i didn’t really know what to say it was nerve racking. and i really, i never given a talk that long. and the longest i could stretch it out was about two hours, we’re supposed to go for four hours, but that was on it. so. so it was hard.
peter margaritis
it is the hardest thing. well, the hardest thing you did was raise your hand and say i’ll do the trigger speech. yeah, that’s the hardest piece of it, it’s actually volunteering, putting yourself out there in a very vulnerable spot. and a lot of people have a hard time or time doing it. and i used to have a really hard time doing that. i was born naturally shy, i still have that shy tendency, but i know how to control it. but most people won’t, they’re afraid to put themselves out there. but right now we need it more than ever, because that’s how we’re going to communicate with our clients. and by the way, when you do a presentation, you will make mistakes. nine times out of 10, you’re the only one that knows you made a mistake, don’t focus on the mistakes, just park it in the back of your mind, just keep moving forward, then you can assess it later. and then go okay, i did this, this and this. next time you do it, maybe you knock three of the four off, and you’ll better job. and then a couple of things will pop up. but like i said nine times out of 10 you’re the only one and i’ve seen i’ve seen people present and they forget something. and then they try to go back. and then the wheels come off the presentation.
liz farr
i have experiences with that in grad school, way, way back when i did some graduate work in linguistics and remember trying to give a presentation about i don’t know what it was something in syntax. and that halfway through my mind just went blank. and i had no idea what i what i just said. i looked down at my little notes, my little outline, and i like i don’t even know where i am. but fortunately, i had a professor who who gently reminded me what i just said and got me back on track.
peter margaritis
that’s cool. i use that professor many, many thanks because that that is that is nerve racking. i’ve learned about myself as i am not a podium speaker. and the year that i was chair of the ohio society of cpas our big ending year event. annual members meeting clark price the ceo at the time, and i were tag teaming on the stage. and we they had changed the script was 30-40 times within three days. so there’s no way to even memorize or whatever. but i knew what i wanted to say. and i remember i was getting right and i looked down at the piece of paper and it was blank. there were words there but i did not see them. so i paused i didn’t freak out possible. and i took a step outside of the podium. what and kind of stood next to the podium and i recorded my i see the ceo about to lose his noodle and i just spoke just what i felt and covered those pieces. and i’m gonna get past that because i will have to podium speak some time. but it’s um, it’s, it’s not easy. but if you’re taking a risk, and a lot times that risk will pay off. it’s our inner critic that tells us not to do it.
liz farr
yeah. yeah. yeah. and we’ve got to be better at silencing that inner critic.
peter margaritis
yes, i mine, my inner critic. i gave it a name, my inner critic thing, nick. nick, i wonder i did call it polly at one time. and i was telling my mother about her name was polly. she didn’t like that very much. so i changed his name to nick. and i’ve learned how to tell him, nick. yeah, you can tell me that now. and also learn how to tell nick, go sit the corner, i got this. i got this. you don’t have to tell me i? yes, i will probably mess up. but it’ll be fine. yeah, and that goes with just continually doing it. and building up that confidence that you have, in order to have your inner critic become a little bit quieter. i want that inner critic there. i don’t want him to go away. because if i’m standing on an airplane, get ready to jump out of it now have a parachute on. i want nick to scream in my head, you’ll have a parachute fall backwards, don’t fall forwards. but outside. now, i think i’ve pretty much got this.
liz farr
no. now it used to be to be a great accountant, you had to kind of keep the tax law in your head and all the regulations. but now you’re saying that we have to be great communicators? and what other skills do accountants need to be successful in the future?
peter margaritis
they need to be… we all need to have some training on emotional intelligence. and think about that is a lot of cpas are not self aware of how they come across to others. i’ve had a couple of coaching clients this year that i was contacted, i was referred to. and i worked with them. and they were not self aware. they were brash, they were sheldon cooper on the big bang theory squared at times. and it was this one is great guy, management firm. very smart. but his ability to be self aware of how he’s coming across, didn’t exist. and i know that he’s not the only one out there. i know there are a lot of others out there. it’s the smart. but that’s just your iqs part of it. but we’re trying to develop relationships. we’re trying to build a business counting as a business. we’re trying to grow that business. and the more that we can find a way to not be brash, not be bold, not be sarcastic and just come across gruff. but come across more. how can we help you? i understand. we do this. but a lot of times they go i, i, i, i and i go, oh, so you’ve got an ego problem. you say? i don’t have an ego problem. really? how many i’s did you just give me and this one, i said, think about how many times you say i and next time you you’re back to say i say we or us, and see and look at the faces of those folks that you’re communicating with. because they’re i used to you saying i, they’re probably cringy switch to we or us it’d be more including, and you’ll see a change in their way they look at you. and the next time we got on a call with you, right? they sure we’re i didn’t hear myself before. i didn’t realize it before. this is the way i’ve always been. and his dad was an accountant back to the old school accountant. and he goes i just didn’t hear myself. and that’s how we grow our business is become more inclusive, become more self aware, also be socially aware of others read the room. and this guy he would walk into partners office and tell him what he thought that they should be doing. no, no, i hear what you’re trying to do. but you’re pushing them in a corner. you’re challenging them now. come and take another approach. take it take a more softer one. we have an issue this is the issue at hand. how can we as a team, solve it? versus you know, sometimes i gotta be gruff with them? sometimes i gotta play hardball with. okay. um, so i did tell one, as you know, they’re paying me to help you. let me means a lot, if you don’t really realize it, they’re going out on a limb to see some change in you. you want if you want to stay with this firm, you better change or you’re not going to last to the end of this year.
liz farr
though, why i kind of see why power skills is a better word for these than soft skills.
peter margaritis
yeah, it’s i mean, we’ve we’ve interpersonal skills, kind of overused, but they are powerful when used properly. and they are powerful in the wrong hands and used inappropriately.
liz farr
oh, yes, absolutely. yeah. we’ve all seen some of that inappropriate use. now, we’ve talked about things that accountants need to start doing differently. what are some things that accountants should stop doing immediately?
peter margaritis
that is a good question. throw away their 10 key, we have excel, we have we have, we have artificial intelligence, i get it’s there. and it’s a comfort and i have to do real quick. but what we need to stop doing is looking at those people that we hire, and think of them as a number, or they’re just staff. look at those people who are in the organization who are managers. the coolest people in our organization are senior managers, one of the challenges that the professionals have, is having a succession planning. and a lot of firms because of the culture, nobody wants to come a partner. so when the partner wants to retire, gotta sell. that says a lot about that culture. so if you want, there’s a firm in maryland, who worked five, six years, one of the founding supporters, financial supporters of the communication center, firm in fort worth, texas, they have been working on it for seven years. and they’re trying to create the culture, they’re growing organically. they’re not buying on the farm. they’re just growing organically, but they want to keep that they would keep their people there. people want to work places there that are challenging, that are fun, that are inspiring, but not like working in a salt mine. yep. and
liz farr
you know, your your characterization, that is exactly why i never became a partner in a cpa firm, at least not the ones i worked out. i just didn’t really see that there was a way for me to be happy. no, i looked at doing that the rest of my life, it was like looking down a long dark tunnel with no exit.
peter margaritis
yes, they just started that that they need to do is oh, i just went blank. oh, i have to come back to that. i had it. i had it just left. do you can you can you get this piece out? i had another idea there. but oh, i know what it is. they need to stop thinking that they know what everybody else wants. there’s a there’s a firm in massachusetts, i did some i did some work with during the pandemic, and series on the gift of giving and receiving feedback. and as i got to know them, we were talking and it’s a hi guys doing during the pandemic. and prior to the pandemic they were about to expand their office but larger real estate footprint out there. and when the pandemic hits, they kind of went okay, maybe we don’t need this space. maybe we are we seem to we seem to be very, very productive in this remote workforce. i tell you what’s let’s do and so demand has ever come back. let’s ask them what they want to do. and then we can put some parameters around that. and ultimately, what they wanted was a group that wanted to work primarily remotely come into the office when needed, those ones that were working this hybrid model and then what’s in the office all the time. and during this, you know they decided well, if that’s the case, we’ll support it. and we just need to reduce our footprint our real estate footprint instead of increasing it. they asked what they want. hmm novel idea lists
liz farr
yeah. yeah, you know, i can’t tell you how many times i was in group meetings, and they announced some big new initiative. and i thought, what a stupid idea. but of course, i couldn’t say that. you couldn’t, could not say that both oh, boy, they maybe should have asked about, you know, what do we think, right to clients want this,
peter margaritis
right, or serve even surveys, and survey our clients and ask them but this is done almost every single day in corporate america. this is we’re gonna get together the c suite we’re far removed from the business. and we’re gonna come up with it and la di da versus getting a representation of all areas of the business, all different levels, putting together a group and find out what is the best way to do this. no novel idea, i guess.
liz farr
it’s a tough idea…a tough idea for some to swallow.
well, peter, this has been just perfect. i’ve had such a great time reconnecting with you and hearing what you’ve been doing. if listeners want to connect with you, what’s the best way to find you?
peter margaritis
the best way to find me is when you go to my website, www that peter. last name margaritas. na r g ar it is.com. i’ll altogether though die that in between it. and you can email me at peter at peter margaritas.com and reference this episode on it. as time goes, go to next year if you want to learn more about what’s going on at the school of accounting communication center at oklahoma state university. visit the school of accountings website. i don’t have it off the top of my head. but just go google and even google school of accounting communication center oklahoma state. we’re working on the website working on some other things and see what we’re doing because it’s going to be really exciting stuff.
liz farr
well, thank you so much, and i can’t wait to see what you do with that program.