one of the oddest ways i ever lost a client.
hoisted from comments
looking at comments, ed mendlowitz seems to have hit a nerve with this piece. 卡塔尔世界杯常规比赛时间 readers are reacting with knowing nods and war stories of their own.
by ed mendlowitz
call me before you do anything: the art of accounting
who would ever think that the most important part of a shoebox with a client’s tax information was the shoebox?
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not me, and i lost a client because of it.
tillie used to come to my office each year with her tax information neatly organized in an oversized shoebox. i would meet with her, ask questions, chit chat, and when her return was completed she would come to the office to pick it up and get her information back. to ease the flow of working on her return, everything was kept in the shoebox.
one year when the return was completed, she could not come to the office and asked us to send her the return and her information, which we did. we took the stuff out of the large box and put it, along with the return, in a large envelope. when she got the package she called very excitedly wanting to know if we could return her shoebox, and we told her it had been discarded.
she told me that she had all her tax information in particular shoeboxes all stored together in a closet. she liked the quality, sturdiness and size of the box, so each year a few weeks before tax time she would go to the shoe store and buy a pair of shoes so she would get the box. we had now ruined her system and she would never use us again – and she didn’t.
to me, it was a box. to her it was part of her “identity” and it also made her feel good that her records were neat and all lined up in a nice order. it was also an excuse to treat herself to a better pair of shoes.
the takeaway here is that we are in a service business and deal in intangibles. we work hard to transmit good feelings. what i did not do here was to relate to what was important to the client. we need to be perceptive and try to understand what the client thinks is important and then deal with that. it is not hard; it just requires a conscious effort. in this case, it was a shoebox.
45 responses to “she wanted her shoebox back”
bigboy billy ndlovu
the shoe box story its very good, i have a client when he is introducing me to people he uses the appropriated name for each occasion i have discovered that he grow up in a dysfunctional family he will be wanting to impress people that he is known by educated people.
edward mendlowitz
losing her was my bad; not hers. we all have our own craziness (even me).
edward mendlowitz
thank you all for the interesting comments. who would ever have thought this shoebox incident would have so much interest. it just shows the importance we place on client relationships.
vickie
my best individual client by far always brought his stuff in tied up grocery bags. it was always a mess and we had to sort through and organize and keep everything for him. but he loved us, and paid us tens of thousands of dollars each year many times up to $50-60,000 a year and ultimately referred a $113 million friend’s estate to us, which we ended up billing over $1 million. it’s all in how you treat clients no matter how unorganized they are. if they are willing to pay for it (and many are) you will recoup many rewards. i had another client that we took care of his house and termite inspections, picked up mail, made sure his lawn was mowed. never once complained about a bill!
ed mendlowitz
vickie, you know how to run a business. good for you. btw i once arranged for a client’s cat to go to a vet. whatever keeps clients happy and staying and paying.
joe eckelkamp
one of my firm’s 10 commandments is: we only work with clients that we respect and that respect us.
so, the question isn’t about a shoebox. my mil used one and everything was chronological. a restaurant client brought docs with food stains. both were great to work with. i make “house-calls” for some clients because the relationship is worth it–both monetarily and personally. and, of course, we’d all do a lot extra for the $100,000 fee client…or the client we dearly love for other reasons.
however, this (presumably) modest fee client saw so little value to the relationship and respected the cpa so little that they were never an ideal client for that reason, not a shoebox. a colleague says, “i don’t want “clients”. i want “good clients.” some clients destroy value and interfere with/ distract from pursuing ideal clients.
gregg lynch
one of my old clients years back was an old family friend; she was neighbor & good friend of my parents, and i grew up with her daughter. she always brought her documents to me in a big, padded envelope that was made for mailing stuff at christmastime (had a big red bow, in ink, as a decoration). 10 or so years ago, she passed away in late february. daughter called to let me know & to ask for help in hunting down what i’d need to do mom’s return. i told her what to look for, she called back 15 minutes later & said “i found it and it’s stuffed full of things that say “important tax information.” with the things she inherited from her mom, the daughter’s return became more complicated & she became a client the following tax season. and yes, of course – she brings her stuff to me in her mom’s padded envelope. i wouldn’t have it any other way.
edward mendlowitz
that’s the way to go. it is called client service.
les orr
i was hoping to attach a photo of my collection of ‘banker’s boxes’. i couldn’t find the “attach button.” too bad …
edward mendlowitz
i can’t find attach either. i also have photos i would like to post.
edward mendlowitz
we should have an ugly tax submissions contest.
brian davis
this is all well and good, but the simple answer would have been to run to a shoe store, buy a box, and deliver it to her house.
edward mendlowitz
if i thought about it, i would have returned her box with her tax documents.
ira abrams, cpa,ca
great story. client service is important. but that’s why receiving client data digitally is now important.
edward mendlowitz
digital works, and i also reply letting clients know it was received.
grace lee
so true about client service…i love this story. thank you.
edward mendlowitz
thanks. i also like it, although i don’t look great in it.
edward mendlowitz
me too!
janet c
one year we got our client’s documents is a box with a christmas bow on top. we related to to our client what a kick we got out of the bow. so, every year until she passed we got a new bow. i miss her …and the bows.
edward mendlowitz
one year we tried tying the tax returns with a blue ribbon when we sent them out. it got too time consuming and we didn’t get much feedback.
edward mendlowitz
whatevwer works, works for me.
michael c
we had an old gentleman, since deceased, that would bring in his tax records every year in a tide detergent box with the top cut off. when asked why, he said we could never lose his record because we would always be able to track them down by the scent. he was right – he had the best smelling records in the office!
martin eisenstein
that’s a great story!!
edward mendlowitz
i don’t like things that smell in the office. it makes everything near it smell.
carter s.
good story with a lesson! thank you!
m. debra debra reno
that sounds like a very immature client who lacks self confidence to do what she wants without having an excuse. i have had several “shoe box clients” in my practice. as a staff person, my partners always told me – you work to get rid of “shoe box” and “cocktail napkin” clients. messy clients take time and always cause problems and potential write offs. you may have liked her, she may have been a nice person, but that does not make her a model client for the future growth of your firm. as reese’s pieces says: “not sorry.”
michael c
wow! your difficulty in relating to this person makes you an ideal candidate for immediate placement with our competition.
mike dibianco
i’m with you! the point of the article is well taken. we definitely need to try to see things from our clients’ perspectives, but there must be a limit to the extent we go to accommodate clients. if the body of work for this client was not enough for the client to excuse this reasonable mistake, then so be it.
joe eckelkamp
couldn’t agree more that it’s a blessing in disguise. she clearly had no respect for the firm’s time, talent, or experience. to her, the firm was a commodity.
not often, but sometimes, addition by subtraction is necessary. not every client’s pecadillos can be accommodated by every firm. if it’s a $10,000 client, do as suggested and buy a shoebox. but, if it’s a $250 return, the economics don’t work. you don’t go to mcdonald’s expecting tuxedo’d waiters and vice versa.
carrie c
working with money makes many people fill with anxiety, that is why most hire a professional. if a shoebox makes it easier for them, i can respect that.
it doesn’t make you any more professional or increase your skill level, it makes you disrespectful to someone that is paying you for the services.
michael
i agree. we’ve gotten rid of our shoebox clients. if a potential new client comes in with messy records, i tell them “here’s an organizer. you don’t really want to pay me $200 an hour to sort & add your receipts, do you?” some potential clients will take the organizer & come back in a week, some won’t. i don’t shed a tear over the ones that don’t.
d. f.
actually, yes. i would pay you $200 an hour to sort through and deal with my bad book keeping.
actually i’d likely pay more if you realized two things, 1: i don’t care about the books or the cost, paying you $250 an hour means i can still make money for myself, plus the few workers i have who need to support their families. that combined is more then what you would cost me. 2) my way of doing things make me successful, it may not work for you, but it does for me. without me, you can still have clients, with nice neat organized folders, but it is very likely that their skill sets aren’t like mine, that mine have come the hard way, and when times get tuff, i’ll still be here.
dp
df is right. the client gets to choose their cpa, and they will choose a cpa that helps solve their problems. if we bill $250/hour (or more) to turn their mess into a tax return, i’m generally willing to do that for clients willing to pay it. we have enough clients who are decent people with interesting lives that are willing to pay for that service that we can choose which clients we work with. and, i always have an answer to the “how can i lower my fees?” question.
ed’s first point is correct. “anybody” can do a tax return, and the public can’t always tell the difference between a good one and a bad one. it’s not about the return, which the client assumes to be correct. (you’re a professional, aren’t you?) it’s about the intangibles you provide: peace of mind, the professional experience, and empathy for the client.
edward mendlowitz
i have a client (fore over 20 years) who pays a 5 figure fee for his tax return. each year i travel from nj to his apt in manhattan and i sit there for 2 1/2 to 3 hours while he gors through his accumulated “tax info” mail to see what is for me and what is for him and what he could throw away. when i leave his apt i have a small dufflebag full of his info. he is paying me to sit there and waste my time, but his finds value in the relationship and i am making premium fees from him. i don;t mind this at all. also, i have face time with a vwry wealthy influential person. that also has its advantages.
bea
my clients are the best part of my job. i am sure i would have made more money if i would havve gotten rid of inefficent clients. i have been criticized for the excess time spent with them. but my clients are very happy and it makes me feel good to know that i helped someone through a difficult task. my client base consists of clients i have had for almost 40 years. they have been come dear friends. they are the reason i love my job.
my work consists of a lot of estate and trust work. if there is ever a time when a client needs a caring kind professional, it is then.
life isn’t all about money. making people smile, sure goes a log way in making for a happy life.
edward mendlowitz
life isn’t about money, but business has to include making profits. as long at it is legal and the client pays well for what i do, it works. a client once paid me to travel from nyc to north miami to fire the manager of hi business there. the firing took about 15 minutes and i sent a few hours drinving around and then went home. who am i to complain? he wanted me to be the “bad guy” and i got the job done. btw, there were other incidents like that including day trips to houston, denver, carmel calif, st. john in the virgin islands (but i spent a few days there) and chicago. i got a reputation throughout his company, but he was my highest fee paying client for many years. i did a little more than his tax return and his financial statement audits. in the process i became his most trusted advisor. i also just remembered i went to washington dc a couple of times for hour meeting on other matters for him. he also introduced me to some very famous people who i did accounting work for – very famous people. actually, all of these comments and replies would make a good article.
frank stitely
at some point, you have to decide if you are running a business with a profit motive or a psychology practice. if you can price to accommodate these clients, i am fine with them, but my 32 tax seasons tells me these are the most price sensitive clients.
edward mendlowitz
hi frank. haven’t spoken with you in a while. i hope your great book is selling off the shelves. btw, i have had very few price sensitive clients because i always quoted fees higher than they were paying. i have value sensitive clients and always make sure i provide excess value and make them know about it!
chris barrett
ed,
this is a hysterical anecdote but a good lesson. we must see things from the customer point of view, not ours.
thanks for sharing.
c
edward mendlowitz
amen!
terry ryan
how true! how true! for 30 years, in the mail, i receive an old client’s tax information in the same manila folders. they are organized by type of income and deduction. each one is labeled with his name and address on each tab. the files are so fatigued the creases are now rips. i replaced them with color-coded folders and mailed them along to the client. i immediately received a call that he didn’t want “new” folders. he wanted his old ones back. fortunately, they were still in the oversized paper recycling bin we have. i dug through it, pulled them out, taped up the rips, mailed them along and life is good with him once again. i now look forward to those wilson jones folders every year. for another client, she delivered her “shoebox” in the form of a tablecloth tied in a bow. i was allowed to keep that even though the client has since moved on!
edward mendlowitz
you get it! we are in a service business selling a deliverable that is similar to every other accountant. it is the touchy-feely part that creates the relationship and the bond.
ted crabtree
if the client delivers their tax data in a particular container, like a shoebox, we always return it that way. in this case, i would have refused to mail it if she wasn’t comfortable losing the box, unless she wanted to pay extra for the mailing. we would have told her that it would be at our office when she could get by at her convenience. in my mind, if she was satisfied with your quality of work, the shoebox would not have mattered – so it’s possible that the box was a convenient excuse to move on.
edward mendlowitz
shoe boxes work for me if the shoe boxes are important to the client. i learned that the hard way.
fran brown
i absolutely agree we need to understand the relationship from the client perspective. however, after several years of service it does not sound like she took any time to understand the value of what you provided. in the end her shoebox was more important than top quality tax advice and planning – not exactly a client you should want.