uncover how regulations, investor demands, and market expectations are driving organizations to embrace sustainable practices.
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gear up for growth
with jean caragher
for 卡塔尔世界杯常规比赛时间
in a world where sustainability is increasingly critical, environmental, social, and governance (esg) has emerged as a vital component of the accounting profession—described as the “fourth leg” of the accounting stool, alongside tax, audit, and consulting. esg integrates sustainability metrics with financial data, offering a holistic view of an organization’s health and strategic opportunities.
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“esg is about measuring and quantifying sustainability-related data and aligning it with financial metrics,” explains jennifer harrity, esg and sustainability director for sensiba. “this approach not only provides a clearer picture of an organization’s health but also identifies strategic opportunities for growth.”
organizations adopting esg practices are reaping measurable benefits, including enhanced operational efficiency, risk mitigation, and improved market appeal. harrity notes that initiatives such as carbon footprinting and b corp certification lead to significant outcomes, including cost savings, revenue growth, and stronger brand reputations.
“esg is no longer just about doing good for the planet; it makes solid business sense,” says harrity. “clients want to save money, attract top talent, and meet the demands of conscious consumers and investors.”
harrity emphasizes the potential for accounting professionals to play a leading role in the esg transformation. by integrating esg services into their practices, cpas can guide clients in aligning sustainability efforts with business strategy, unlocking long-term value.
she outlines key steps for firms looking to adopt esg practices:
- conducting internal esg assessments.
- engaging clients in sustainability conversations.
- leveraging frameworks like b corp certification.
“the shift toward esg offers cpas an opportunity to expand their advisory roles,” harrity says. “this is a chance to help clients navigate complex challenges and become leaders in sustainable business practices.”
4 key takeaways
- esg requirements are no longer limited to public companies—they’re increasingly relevant for private companies due to supply chain pressures.
- companies failing to adopt esg practices risk losing business opportunities and supply chain inclusion.
- diverse skills in environmental science, marketing, and engineering can enhance an esg practice.
- smaller cpa firms can start by mastering esg basics and partnering with specialized firms to meet client needs.
about jennifer harrity
jennifer harrity brings more than 20 years of business and marketing experience to her role as the leader for the sensiba center for sustainability at sensiba. she leads the firm’s core sustainability efforts and b corp certification. in 2020, she launched the firm’s sensiba center for sustainability, to help companies move to a purpose-driven, sustainable business model that includes social and environmental performance, accountability, and transparency.
in addition to her sustainability practice, jennifer hosts the rebooting capitalism podcast that digs into why traditional capitalism is broken and what people are doing to fix it. she also was honored in 2021 by the san francisco business times as one of the 100 most influential women in businesses and was honored again in 2022 as a forever influential woman.
jennifer received a dual bachelor’s degree in graphic design and photography from california state university, east bay. she also holds a diversity and inclusion certificate from cornell university. currently, she is attending harvard university, studying corporate sustainability and innovation. jennifer is a member of the association for accounting marketing (aam) and serves on the board of directors. she is also a member of the international society of sustainability professionals (issp) and holds a sustainability excellence associate (sea) credential. outside work, jennifer enjoys crossfit, kayaking, and spending time in the redwoods.
transcript
(transcripts are made available as soon as possible. they are not fully edited for grammar or spelling.)
jean: hello, thank you for joining in “gear up for growth,” powered by 卡塔尔世界杯常规比赛时间. i’m jean caragher, president of capstone marketing and your host. this episode is focused on creating an esg and sustainability practice. our guest is jennifer harrity, esg and sustainability director at sensiba llp in pleasanton, california. jennifer has been with sensiba for over 13 years and served as the firm’s director of marketing prior to moving into the esg and sustainability role full-time in 2022. she is participating in graduate studies in corporate sustainability and innovation at harvard university and was recently named one of the 100 most influential people in accounting by “accounting today.” jennifer, welcome to “gear up for growth.”
jennifer: thank you, jean. thank you for having me on. i’m excited to talk about this stuff.
jean: yes, i am, too, because you know a lot about this topic, and i don’t know a lot about it at all. so, this is going to be very educational for me today. so, let’s start at the beginning. in a prior interview, you referred to esg as the fourth leg of the accounting stool, tax, audit, consulting, and sustainability. so, tell us what is esg and sustainability.
jennifer: absolutely. yes, it is that fourth pillar to the stool. absolutely. esg stands for environmental, social, and governance. and basically, there’s different frameworks. it’s the metrics, it’s the measurements, it’s the standards, it’s the regulations to help measure all of the things and quantify all the things that fall under sustainability. and sustainability, i know for a lot of folks, you know, it harkens back to kind of the definition of, you know, 50 years ago where it’s mostly planet and mostly recycling and composting. and, you know, just as everything else has evolved dramatically over the last 50 years, so has the definition of what falls under sustainability. so now, yes, it’s still recycling, it’s still composting, it’s still, you know, using things responsibly, and it’s also quality education and healthcare for everybody. it’s equality, it’s, you know, solar power, clean water, ending poverty, ending hunger.
so, there’s a lot of things that fall under that, and things that we already do at accounting firms like soc 2 engagements, or, you know, anything that falls under the risk assurance practices that many firms have, being good stewards with client data and protecting ip, that falls under sustainability, too. so, there’s lots of different things that fall under sustainability that can be kind of plugged into the buckets of the e, the s, and the g so that we can measure and quantify them. and where it falls into accounting is a lot of this measurement and assurance of the data for these different reports that will be coming about for the different regulations that are starting to come to fruition in california, in europe, and elsewhere, that measurement and data assurance is happening in the accounting world more and more. and i feel it should be happening in the accounting world because it pairs so nicely with the financial data. when you start pairing the… yes, yeah, good.
jean: well, let me interrupt there for one second because i believe that esg reporting started with public companies. now, have you seen it filter down to the privately held companies as well?
jennifer: yes, yes. so, there is a trickle-down effect happening. so, many of the regulations that are currently in play right now that folks are reporting on right now, particularly in europe with the corporate sustainability that they have there, the csrd, that reporting has started and is underway. they’re about two years ahead of us, i want to say. and that is predominantly with public companies or large companies that are doing this, even in the united states, simply for shareholder demands and investor demands. and so, a lot of this reporting is starting to call into question for these larger companies, “what is within your supply chain?” and for large companies, their supply chains are made up of the small and medium-sized privately held organizations. so, as they start reaching down into their supply chains to ask for data, these companies are getting caught off guard saying, “we never thought we had to measure this because we’re not a public company,” or, “we’re not big enough.” right?
and so, what a lot of these public and private companies are starting to do is, one, they’re getting a lot more requests these days as it starts to become more and more prevalent. but they’re also starting to see that companies are losing business because they’re just not simply a part of the conversation anymore because they aren’t doing this work, right? i can share just a personal anecdote from our firm. when we rebranded, you know, we started looking at what new fun swag can we get for employees. of course, it’s sustainable and all those good things because that’s who we are. but many companies that we looked at, we said, “oh, wow, we really love this product of theirs, but the company isn’t a b corp. it doesn’t have an impact report. it’s not sustainably made.” so, we just went with something else. so, that company doesn’t even know we were considering buying from them. they just suddenly weren’t a part of that conversation anymore because they weren’t doing this work. and so, a lot of companies are coming across that piece.
jean: right. so, a lot of this is stemming from the desire to do good for the world and resources we have that we need to be taken care of.
jennifer: yeah. you know, that’s how the movement i feel started. you know, it’s the right thing to do. we want to conserve resources. and i think it’s been carried through enough years of showing that it actually makes really good business sense. right? so, there’s a lot of folks that are now coming to us saying, “i want to be more efficient. i want to save money. i want to mitigate risk. i want to be more desirable to consumers. i want to be more desirable to top talent in my industry.” those are the things that are really driving the work right now and undertaking a lot of these initiatives like measuring a carbon footprint. right? and, you know, the data that comes from that really does help companies plot their strategic plan a little more efficiently, forecast a little bit longer into the future than just with the financial data. when you pair the non-financial esg data right next to the financial data, you get a much better picture of a company’s overall health and longevity.
jean: right. so, what sparked your interest in esg and sustainability?
jennifer: yeah, no, i know. twenty-five years as a marketer, i was the head of marketing for my firm for 10 years and had the wonderful opportunity to take our firm through something called b corp certification. b corp is one of the many esg frameworks out there. it is a third-party validated certification. so, while you fill out an assessment, the oversight body b lab does review and validate that all of your information is correct and audits the data that you put in there to be able to receive the certification. and that whole process was magical to me. and i saw the benefits that we got as an organization from doing that and went to my managing partner, and i said, “you know, you and i talked about me building a revenue-generating practice, and we kind of thought it was going to be marketing when we first started this conversation. what do you think about b corp consulting?” and, you know, he loved the idea, too. and so, we said, “okay, let’s tinker with that for a little bit.”
and so, i sat and built out, you know, a service practice around b corp consulting. and then i had one of our audit partners approach me and say, “hey, there is this fsa certification for sasb reporting.” sasb stands for the sustainability and accounting standards board, kind of the framework that accounting has for esg. and he goes, “i’d really love to get into this.” and he says, “why don’t we team up and start a sustainability niche?” “okay, great.” so, we went to my managing partner, john, and said, “hey, you know, we want to do this.” he said, “okay, great. put a business plan together, and we’ll present it to the partners.” the partners loved it. they saw the business sense, they saw the possibility of adding a new consulting service, right? because as accounting has shifted from the compliance side to the consulting side, we’ve all been going through that shift over the last few years, having another piece to that consulting pie was really desirable. and they saw the benefit of it.
and so, as we started building that out in 2019, i was just riffing in john’s office one day saying, you know, “this could be so much bigger. we could be something that really does the holistic view with a company, and we could do this and this and this and this.” and he said, you know, “jennifer, i have another meeting, but that sounds fantastic. go build that,” and then walked out of his office. and i think i sat there for a good five minutes going, “what did i just get myself into? and what did i just say?” and went and wrote it all down and just started building from there. and we launched publicly at the end of 2020 a holistic sustainability esg practice, taking into account not just the reporting side and the compliance side, carbon footprinting, but also looking at culture work and diversity and inclusion and how to help companies improve their culture, and looking at just different aspects of the e, the s, and the g, and helping clients weave it into their company instead of having it be tack on initiatives and connecting it to the overall business strategy and plan of the organization so that it flows through.
jean: now, you’ve told us about, you know, the tremendous support you received from your managing partner and the audit partner that said, “hey, you know, let’s do this.” what was it like getting the other partners and people within the firm on board with this?
jennifer: i feel very blessed because i feel like it wasn’t as challenging. i don’t know if it was we really put a very thorough business sense type of plan together for this. and, you know, our partner group is very diverse. i once again feel very blessed that it’s so diverse as it is. lots of different backgrounds, lots of different religious background, political backgrounds, things that kind of come into the esg space that i personally feel that it’s…we’re all trying to just live on the same planet. don’t we want to save it to live here a little longer? like, can we not make it political or religious or…? that’s my own personal feeling there. but those folks took a look at that business plan and took a look at what we’re trying to do and realized that at the end of the day, this work helps our clients be better. and as an industry, that’s what we strive for. we exist to help people. we exist to help our clients be better, to operate more smart, to be better employers for their employees, to help be better stewards in their community, and to help the economy thrive, right? that’s why accounting is there, is to help that. so, this is another piece and another tool to help that. and i think that’s what they saw and the potential.
jean: so, for those listening or watching, jennifer, tell us the type of skills that your folks need or are required to be part of this esg sustainability practice.
jennifer: right. we do have some accountants, right? and we do have, you know, audit partner to come in and bring those auditing skills. but it opens up the door for other modalities. we have environmental science and vas, right? i’m a marketer by trade, but that skill set comes particularly in impact reporting. right? you know, we at one point had a marine biogeochemist on staff. you know, we have an engineer. like, there’s lots of different modalities that can come in that haven’t traditionally been in the accounting space that bring beautiful ways of thinking that hasn’t been a part of those conversations in, you know, fixing problems for our clients. right? and so, it’s been pretty neat to see those different ways of thinking kind of come together to really help our clients, you know, be better.
so, yeah, we’ve got environmental science mbas. and there’s lots of great certificates out there. i know that aicpa has wonderful programs to help folks that are on the accounting side that want to learn a little more sustainability and how to just be smart about that to talk to their own clients about it. you know, there’s lots of carbon accounting courses popping up. so, if somebody is an accountant at a firm that wants to take this up for their own firm and kind of start a practice, it’s a great way to look at it. there’s also the fsa credential for sasb and the new issb, international sustainable standards board, that the ifrs developed back in november of ’21. that’s kind of how all new this stuff is in the accounting world. the oversight body for the standards in the accounting world was literally just created in november of ’21. so, that’s why, you know, it’s…
jean: right. you’re definitely at the head of the curve here, jennifer.
jennifer: yeah. it’s one of those things that we’re really excited to see that happen. but that just shows how new it all is to something that… accounting has been around for millennia. right? so, this is the new kid on the block that is going to come in and hopefully just help move business in the right direction.
jean: so, how has this service been received by your clients?
jennifer: a lot of our clients have really loved it. folks that have come to us that have been open…we do something called a high-level esg assessment, where we go in and we help a business look at…we talk with a handful of about five different executives on the team, pulling from the different areas of an organization and develop this report that helps them identify what is material to their organization, both risk and opportunity-wise that they should be looking at and should be measuring from an esg standpoint and show and correlate it to tangible roi. right? and that’s…
jean: do you have an example of that?
jennifer: sure. wonderful case study, we were working with a wine company, and helped them do lots of different things to influence their sustainability across the organization. the funnest impact to talk about was just from doing their carbon footprinting. carbon footprinting is done in three different buckets or three different scopes, scopes 1, 2, and 3. and scope 3 is the measurement that deals with the supply chain. and for them, most of their emissions, most companies, 80% of their emissions is in the scope 3 bucket. but for them, a big one was their shipping, and the cost of their shipping, and the footprint of shipping heavy cases of wine. and so, you know, in the wine industry, there is a myth that the heavy the bottle, better the wine. now, i don’t know about you. i’ve had some heavy bottles that have not been so great. but it is just a myth. the weight of the bottle does nothing to the wine.
so, when we suggested to them lightweighting the bottles, it was a bit of a scandalous thing to ask them to do. and they agreed to do it with two brands and said, “okay, we’ll test it with two brands. we don’t want to tell anybody.” but we ended up shaving 5% off of the bottle weight. and, of course, from building the bottles, that’s less glass and less heating of the forges to melt the glass, to pour the bottles, to actually lessen the weight of the cases, which are then cheaper to ship because they don’t weigh as much. and what ended up happening is they actually saved a million dollars that first year they implemented it. and that’s the bottom line savings. the top-line growth they had was actually kind of a fun thing that we just stumbled upon like, “oh, this is kind of fun that this happened.” a lot of the wine shops were putting their cases in the front of the stores because they were lighter to carry. so, the staff, when they had to build displays, would use their wine because it was just so much lighter to carry the cases to the front of the store. so, they were getting prime placement. so, suddenly, those brands that they had lightweighted glass bottles on, their sales started going up dramatically. so, they had a ton of top-line growth and bottom-line savings.
jean: right. well, i’m all for making it easy to get the wine in the stores. so, i’m like, “i’m on board with that.” oh, my goodness. so, are there certain industries that are required to follow these esg guidelines?
jennifer: so, not necessarily industries. i mean, there’s some industries that do watch this a little closer than others. when you think about the paper industry and the fsc certification that we all see on the reams of paper that we got to put in the printers or the corrugated boxes, they’ve been regulated for years and have had that on how much recycled content goes into paper and things like that. so, that’s been happening for years in that industry. we’re starting to see industries that are right now getting hit a little harder with the esg data requests are actually the nonprofit industry because they’re going after grants, and grants are starting to require this reporting saying, “i want to see your diversity metrics. what is carbon footprint of your organization?” and so, it’s starting to get asked on the nonprofit side being written into grants.
or we’re seeing things like walmart has come out with a form that all of their companies that are putting products into their stores have to fill out, right? or nordstrom’s has… there is a framework called cdp, client disclosure project. and cdp gives companies…you fill out an assessment, it gives you a score. it’s an abcd score. and so, nordstrom is requiring a lot of their folks, their brands that are in their stores to have at least a c grade in the cdp to even get put into their stores. so, there’s certain industries that are starting to really lean into this, which is exciting to see. and when you have folks like patagonia out there showcasing in…the fashion industry is such a big polluter, right? and showing how to do fashion responsibly, and how to reuse, and do sewing, and getting things dyed, and eco-friendly dyes, and things like that.
so, it’s showing that it can be done. and i think the more companies that start doing that, the other companies are moving in that direction from consumer demand. consumers are being more and more savvy on this stuff. they are starting to see the…particularly, the b corp logo when they start to go buy products and they’re looking at two different shampoos, but they see one shampoo has that b corp logo on it or a fairtrade logo. if they’re looking at different chocolate, and they find the fairtrade america logo on one, they’re going to lean towards that because they know what that means, those levels of certification mean. and that’s been [crosstalk 00:23:08].
jean: i’m sorry, i’m talking over you. so, this is not only something to do for the good of the world, but it sounds like companies are not only saving money, but maybe generating more revenue because they’re getting opportunities from companies who are demanding these certifications for the companies or vendors that they’re working with.
jennifer: right. exactly. exactly. companies that are undergoing this work and doing this work, making these shifts in the organization are valuing higher than their competitors that are…from the financial statement glance, basically apples to apples. but when you dig further and start looking at the esg data, they’re quite different. and so, folks that are undertaking this work and have that done and those risks mitigated are valued higher.
jean: so, this might be a long answer, but you mentioned this b corp a couple of times, and this started your initiative to create this esg practice area. can you give us a snippet of what it means to be a b corp and what should a firm consider before attaining that b corp status? what is that about?
jennifer: right. so, b corp or b corporation is a third-party certification, kind of like fairtrade is to coffee or usda is to milk. right? and it is basically a questionnaire that you fill out, and the questionnaire is going to be changing soon. they’re having new standards come out in the b corp world. currently, it is questionnaire. it’s about 250 to 300 questions, multiple choice, and you have to upload documentation to validate all of the answers within that questionnaire. and it is robust. it covers a full gamut. so, it talks about, how do you treat your workers? what type of benefits? what is your pay look like? you know, are you doing pay gap analysis to community? how are you engaging with folks that make less than $2 a day? right? you know, you’re volunteering and you’re giving…of course, you’re a big part of that. but what is your pro bono look like? what is your supply chain look like? do you understand who your suppliers or vendors are that you’re working with? right? are they women-owned? are they lgbtq? are they, you know, a small business? are they a local business? or are you leveraging businesses that aren’t part of your local community?
there’s the environmental aspect, of course. you know, what is your energy? what is your water? what is your waste? there is your governance. how are you running your organizations? what policies and procedures do you have in place to help mitigate risk? right? and are you running a shareholder-driven company or a stakeholder-driven company? that’s a big shift in business right now is companies that are run with what is…making business decisions based on what is good for all shareholders, right? so, basically, you know, show me the money type of response. like, “what is going to get us the most money for the owners of the business?” and it’s shifting because we’ve operated that way for the last 50 years, and it kind of has been working for the most part. so, we’re starting to shift to this stakeholder-driven decision-making, which is, “if i make this decision, how is this going to impact not only my owners? how is this going to impact my employees? how is this going to impact my customers? how is this going to impact my community at large?” right?
and so, taking in that wider view when making business decisions is so much healthier for an organization for so many reasons. and so, shifting that mindset. and so, that’s the governance piece there. and then customers. right? how are you treating your customers? do your customers like you? do you have mechanisms in place for them to be able to give you feedback and file any grievances? right? so, it really digs into a lot of aspects. a lot of times when i go through the b corp assessment with folks as clients, they say, you know, “i haven’t even thought about measuring this stuff, but it just makes so much sense.” or, “i haven’t thought about this since i started the company this many years ago.” right? or, “i have no idea where to even track this data. where would i track this?” right? and so, having those conversations with them about operationally, how do you go about tracking this, where do you track this, and the importance of tracking it sometimes.
so, b corp really does have businesses use their business as a force for good. so, that looks very different depending on the different business and different industry, right? so, several famous b corps, patagonia, ben & jerry’s, i think folks can get the feel of the b corp, new me tea, athleta, a lot of the more popular brands. but it’s even on your silk almond milk, or your clover, or, you know, down to several accounting firms. right? when we first certified…
jean: i was gonna ask you because i know that there could be people watching or listening, and they’re thinking, “well, sounds really nice. and it’s great to do these things for the world. you know, we’re being kind to each other and all, but why should i care? or, like, what am i supposed to do about this?”
jennifer: yeah. so, b corp in the accounting industry, one, it helps show that you’re walking the talk so that if you do start an esg practice, that’s the first thing clients are going to ask you is, “well, what walk can you show me that you’re walking the talk? what are your credentials for this?” and so, this helps you do that, becoming b corp certified. as well as i can say students are being taught what b corp is in school. conscious capitalism has made its way into business programs in colleges. and when we redid our recruiting booth and put the b corp logo at the top graphic on our booth, and when you go to these college campus recruiting events and they shove, what, 40 or 50 accounting firms in a cafeteria and open the doors and all the students flow through, we’ve all experienced this. they flow through and immediately go to all the big four booths, and you have to sit there for 20, 30 minutes twiddling your thumbs until they trickle down to the regional or smaller booths.
and that first time that we put that b corp logo on our booth and those doors opened, the students walked in and did a dead stop going, “there’s a b corp accounting firm?” because they learned about what it is in school. and so, we were just as busy as the before the whole time. and it allowed us to really go after that top talent and to recruit some seasoned veterans that really that ethos and that that it speaks to them on who they are. and after a few months, we started having other accounting firms kind of come across going, “okay, what is this b corp thing? how do we do this?” and we actually help other firms become before certified because we recognize high tide raises all boats. and this is much bigger than just one firm.
jean: absolutely. so, i have two more questions. so, for those considering starting an esg and sustainability practice, what is the first thing that they need to do?
jennifer: one, put themselves through a framework. if they’re looking at a framework or software that they want to pull in and use as part of the esg practice, run your firm through it first. it’s going to allow you to understand the pain points of the client side a whole lot better and give you more insight on opportunities and risks esg-wise for your own firm. it’s what we’ve done as a firm. we don’t put our clients through anything we haven’t put ourselves through first. talk to your clients. start asking them esg-focused questions, right? we’ve added a few questions to just our general list of questions that our auditors ask all of our clients. you know, asking things about, you know, “have you have you considered these things? have you considered measuring your carbon footprint? where are you at with that? are you getting any questions from your suppliers about this,” or, “how are your customers?” starting that dialogue with your clients just to understand where they’re at so that you have a better idea of what services you might want to offer.
jean: right, because, you know, this is part of that whole dialogue between being more advisory and not all compliance and something that is so early on in its development. so, for those folks who like to be in at the beginning, you know, of an initiative or a new service line, this is an opportunity that they can take advantage of.
jennifer: absolutely. even if you don’t feel the need to start an esg practice all by yourself, even just educating yourself enough to be able to have those conversations and to understand when your clients are asking you about this stuff. so, you know, you don’t know necessarily how to measure carbon footprint, but you could hold your own in a conversation about a client enough to be able to gauge their interest in that work. and even if you are a firm that is small enough that you may not want to start a esg practice, it just doesn’t make sense for your size of firm, knowing enough about it so that you can go find good partners in the industry to partner with for those referrals because it’s an important conversation, it is going to be a part of the accounting world, it’s coming. there’s lots of regulations that are pushing it towards the accounting world. and i think it makes sense there. i think it’s an important place for it.
jean: wonderful. so, my last question is your bonus question. what is your favorite dessert?
jennifer: oh, goodness. this is a dangerous question. favorite dessert. chocolate, chocolate anything. i’m a cake girl, so chocolate cake. but then there’s the seasonal candy that comes out, and those chocolate cadbury eggs are pretty darn good. so, yeah. seasonally, you know, there’s some things. the chocolate cake is usually pretty high out there, though.
jean: well, i’m a chocolate lover, too, so i could totally relate to both of those. i’ve been speaking with jennifer harrity, esg and sustainability director at sensiba llp. thank you, jennifer, for sharing all of your insights with us today.
jennifer: thank you, jean. it has been so much fun.
jean: and thank you for tuning in to “gear up for growth.” be sure to check us out next time when we focus on another topic for accounting firms aiming for smart growth in today’s competitive marketplace. i’ll see you then.