korby boswell: what managing partners need to hear | capstone conversations

capstone conversations
informal and informative discussions with leading growth strategists from the nation’s most dynamic cpa firms.

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with jean caragher
for 卡塔尔世界杯常规比赛时间

 

he explains the success of the association for accounting marketing’s circles, which have grown to 235 members. he drills into the research mindset and interpersonal communication skills that accounting firm strategists need. boswell covers the importance of generating qualified leads and the challenges of staffing and strategic growth in the accounting industry. he advocates for marketing as an investment and stresses the need for trust and collaboration between marketers and managing partners.

key takeaways

• pursue project management certification/credential.
• consider joining or leading an aam circle.
• focus marketing efforts on generating qualified leads, as that is the “currency” of marketing.
• encourage managing partners to trust their marketers, advocate for content marketing, and strategically plan for growth.
• what he has learned about himself as a result of the pandemic
• the process marketing professionals can “own” and what korby is doing about it
• his three pieces of advice for managing partners

transcript
(produced through automoation. not edited for spelling or grammar.)

jean caragher 

hello everybody. this is jean caragher, president of capstone marketing. i am so happy to be talking today with korby boswell, the senior marketing and growth specialist at adams brown, who was recently named the association for accounting marketing volunteer of the year. korby joined aam in 2017. he is the chair of aam’s member growth committee. korby also plays a vital role in the aam circles. lots of folks know about those now, those communities of marketers with similar interests or skills or perhaps geographic areas. he has been active in ensuring the 27 circles, and i think there might be even more than that at this point right, ensuring the 27 circles and their leaders have the resources and support they need, which has resulted in 235 members participating in a circle that is amazing. korby, congratulations on being named volunteer of the year.

korby boswell 

thank you, jean. wow, that was quite the intro. thank you very much.

jean caragher 

you’re welcome. well, you know it’s you know a lot goes into aam. and, of course, you know aam, you know lives by its volunteers. so, so, so to come up with a number of over 200 members participating in at least one circle. that is, that’s incredible. i mean that the idea of who was, who’s ever idea was, is fantastic because there was a need. so, let’s start off just a little bit. could you share with us a little more about those circles and how they came about?

korby boswell 

yeah, so circles, i think we’re a brainchild of christian moises and mitch reno, and then they, they kind of birthed it. and then they said, hey, korby, are you interested in helping? and they talked me into it, and it’s been an awesome experience. circles, just like you said. i mean, they’re, they’re small groups of people with a common interest, and so when they first started, you know, we sent out a form and we said, hey, what are you interested? tell us a little bit about how big your firm is, what your firm does, what your role is, you know, all of those things. so we could group people together kind of similarly. but the cool thing about circles is there’s no right or wrong answer to do them. and so we have circles with three, four or five people. we have a circle with 15 or 20 people. i was on a call yesterday, and there’s a circle of hubspot people, and i think it’s something like close to 30. jeannie, i would say you’ve either spoke to them or you’re part of that group, yeah, and they’re organic. and so people can come and go as they please. we do try to track, you know, attendance, just so we can show who is participating and which groups they’re part of, but it all comes down to the awesome circle leaders. we have a dedicated group of you’re right. i think there’s 27, 28, 29 different circles. and so there’s a person who leads the charge on each of those 27, 28 or 29 different groups, and that that looks different in different circles. so in some they might facilitate the conversation every month, if they meet monthly, or every two months. if they meet every two months, they might delegate that out. and everybody in the circle has a turn throughout the year where they did some research and drive some sort of a conversation. or maybe they’re just asking questions and keeping the conversation going. some of them bring in outside speakers, but they really are. they’re that opportunity for people to connect virtually. you know, for me, i don’t live very close to any other aam members, and so it’s cool to be able to connect virtually. if there’s not a, you know, there’s not really chapters. and so these are almost like virtual chapters for people with a common interest. you know, if you’re a marketing director in a firm of 50. million dollars or more, there’s a group out there for you to connect with and share best practices. and i think that’s what people have enjoyed the most, is, let’s learn from each other, and they’re super collaborative and open to sharing. i think the accounting industry is in jeanral, but yeah, there’s a lot to learn from one another. and so yeah, the group that that birthed this, i mean, it certainly met the need. and the other cool thing i’ll mention about circles is that they are so organic. and really, in the last like three, four or five months, there’s been some other circles that have popped out of the woodwork and said, hey, you know, we should have one dedicated to tax marketing. and so we have one called all things tax, with six or 810, people in it now, and they’re they spend their time talking about marketing, tax services. there’s a group that’s just starting dedicated to public speaking. i don’t know if it’s going to be quite toastmasters like but the circle is going to decide what that looks like, and they’re going to help each other become better at public speaking, and maybe even train train themselves on how to train others, how to become better public speakers, which is kind of cool. there’s one about driving positive change. i think it’s called that, i think, or some version of that. and then i think there’s kind of a sustain, sustainability esque circle out there too. so anyone listening, if you would like to join a circle, or if you would like to lead a circle, there are certainly opportunity. aam has something like eight, maybe close to 900 members, i believe. and so we’re happy with the 200 and some that are currently in circles, but there’s room to grow. so get on the aam website, if, if you’re interested in learning more for the platform, while we have it.

jean caragher 

that’s right. do you know, how much did the pandemic play into forming these circles? did have anything to do? or was it part of it? was it the realization that, hey, we’ve got this great ability now to meet virtually? why don’t we figure out how to make that work?

korby boswell 

you know, i’m sure it played a part. i’m speculating here a little bit, but i’m sure it played a part. i think they were probably thought of in 2020 and then we really executed them in 2021 which is when, you know, the pandemic is still here, right? it’s not totally gone away, but things are morphing a little bit. but they did. they did begin in a time where a lot of people were still working from home. the conference was still at the time when we launched them, i think the conference could only have something like 50 or 100 people there in person. and so this did give people the ability to connect with other accounting marketers in a virtual way and still get something meaningful from it.

jean caragher 

yeah, oh, i think it’s fantastic. and at the as i mentioned, i am part of that hubspot circle, so to meet some of those members, you know, live was was great because, you know, everybody was, i’m sure everybody had the same experience, you know, circle or not, i’ve seen your face, you know, on my computer screen for two years now, and it’s great, you know, to meet you in person. so this is yeah, so kudos, and thank you for all the hard work on the circles. and

korby boswell 

you know that the hubspot circle is a cool example, too, because when we first sent out the survey of, you know, what kind of circle are you interested in? there was just a few comments in the you know, what other comments do you have open text field? and it said, we’d love to see one for hubspot. and it was like two or three comments. and that group has grown from those two or three people who said they wanted to be part of an initially, to something like 25 or 30 now. and so it has been an organic, grassroots effort. yeah, absolutely. i want to be a fly on the wall in that circle of something. there you go. there you go.

jean caragher 

so korby, you are an aam success story. you joined your firm, you joined aam, you dove in. you won rookie of the year. and as we’ve just talked about, winning this volunteer of the year award, this is like you took this opportunity and you just embraced it. so as i mentioned, korby and i did have a capstone conversation in 2019 after he did win the rookie of the year. you could find that@capstonemarketing.com and at that point, korbyn 2019 your title was marketing and growth specialist, and your firm’s name was adams brown baron and ball, which you referred to as a bbb. so things have changed a lot since we talked in 2019 right? you’ve you have a different title and a different firm, name and brand. tell us, how did that all come about? been

korby boswell 

a busy few years. jean, yeah, it really has. so in 2020 we we were changing entity structure, and that kind of sprung a rebrand. need for something we’ve talked about the entire time i’ve worked here, is we’re going to rebrand our names really long. people don’t know what to call us. there’s so many bees. is it three? is it five? is it two? you know, nobody ever had the right number of bees. um. and so, i mean, the timing was right, given our entity structure change and kind of our reorganization that was happening, because i was really hired to help the firm specialize by service line and industry, and we worked with the consultants who helped us, but that’s kind of where i came in, was to help support that initiative. and so that, coupled with the reorg that was happening, we were putting the pieces in place. we knew the time was right to reevaluate our brand, which was a little bit dated at the time, and so i feel much more modern now, but that was a really interesting kind of year long process of, let’s ask our clients and prospects, let’s do data analysis to see how do people refer to us, what do people call us, and the name really came from i was sitting in a focus group, and we asked, we had a survey too, but the focus group really confirmed it for me. one of the i think it was a man in the room. he was like, why i always just call you adams brown anyway? because i don’t know the whole name. and so rather than come up with a different name, we stuck with. well, this is what people call us. let’s go to market as what people call us. and it’s pronounceable. it’s memorable, you know, it’s all these things. so that that data analysis exercise was really interesting there. so yeah, lots happened with the rebrand. and then i hired my first teammate here about a year ago, little over a year ago, and she accepted a new job recently, which is kind of a bummer, but i have a new teammate joining here in a couple weeks. i’m looking forward to to building out our marketing department a little bit more internally than we have in the past. so the winds of change are pushing us in the right direction. that’s

jean caragher 

so we touched upon covid a little bit when we were talking about the circles, but through this crisis. you know, i don’t know that i’d refer to it as a crisis anymore, but it’s still kind of lurking out there, right? we can’t, you know, the pandemic still comes into play. tell me what you have learned about yourself and others in your firm that is going to benefit you in the future. so i

korby boswell 

took some notes, jean, i know you sent me some questions in advance. i was like, i better think about what i want to say here. but i have, i have some decent answers, i think for today’s interview, you know, i think covid taught us that there’s not always a clear right answer. there’s kind of a gray area, and it’s okay to try things even if they don’t always work. i think that’s what it really taught me, and i hope it taught some other marketers too, is don’t let the fear of you know trying to be to make it perfect keep you from doing what needs to be done. because perfect example is before covid, we had never done any webinars. for example, i think there were some other firms who hadn’t done any webinars pre covid either, but on our first webinar. i think it was two days after the cares act passed, or three. we had 800 people attend our webinar, and we did not know what we were doing very well, but we figured it out, and we had some stumbles, and we fixed them along the way. but there’s certainly opportunity to, you know, to take a chance. webinar is not that risky, but call it a risk, if you will, to help benefit your your firm and your clients. and so i think it was a real time covid was and beyond is a real time for marketing departments to step up and lead the charge at their firm. because marketing is is more than than running a website or graphic design, it’s all of these things, and it’s a strategic growth driver at your firm,

jean caragher 

absolutely. if there was ever a time for accounting marketers to shine and show what they are able to do and contribute, it has been during this pandemic, and i, i have to believe that there are partners within firms that perhaps didn’t understand what their marketers were doing or what they were contributing. and the marketers, over these past two years have shown them exactly what they bring to the table. it, you know, it’s too bad it took a pandemic for some but on the positive note, i believe it was really an education for a lot of partners, which we can, you know, all take as very much of a positive, positive result. no,

korby boswell 

it was a, yeah, it was a kind of a perfect storm to it was a perfect reason to throw the rules out the window. right? to me, we all have some internal workings to work through, but if it’s brand new, you’re setting the stage for. here’s how this works, and you can cut through some of that minutia, not that there. you need some of those controls and checks in place, of course. but yeah, it’s a perfect reason to eat that elephant one bite at a time. take a bite and let’s go. there’s no other option, because exactly, exactly, just from from your firm or another firm, right?

jean caragher 

well, and you know, everybody. learn new technologies, you know? i mean, i used to use adobe connect all the time, and boy, this pandemic came, and i realized what adobe connect was not able to do. so it was shoop, turn around. really, no. get to learn zoom, you know, and how that works, you know. and norm teams. so it just, gosh, we really just had to bounce back. and we showed ourselves what we could do, you know, with with very little time or notice, you know what’s possible, right? so when we spoke in 2019 i asked you about the greatest challenge of marketing, cpa firms. now you’ve got a few more years experience under your belt for your response, but in 2019 you talked about technology and the use of technology and marketing automation, and to really be able to pay attention to that and utilize the technology that was available. so when i asked you now what the greatest challenges in marketing cpa firms is, would that still be your response technology, or has something else changed? you

korby boswell 

know, i think that was a kudos to me. i think that was a good response in 2019 and i think it is still relevant today. the so technology, i think, is something we all battle with. we’re getting ready to launch a couple initiatives here this summer related to technology, and so it’s still alive and well, but we’re taking some more action on them than maybe we were in 2019 which is exciting. but as i was thinking about this interview, a couple different thoughts came to mind, kind of, in this post pandemic world, and the great resignation and a great reset, great resignation. i should say, i think it’s staffing, staffing in the marketing department, and they think staffing in the professional side of the firm too, as well. you know, coming out of summit, i heard some firms talking about, do we stop marketing because we want to support the work that we have today, or do we keep going and fear that we can’t support the work that we may pick up along the way. and so i know every firm’s kind of trying to balance out what that looks like, but i don’t think it’s not time to let off the gas just yet. and so i think marketing’s biggest challenge right now is helping and recruiting kind of a new world for some of us that aren’t folk as focused on recruiting these days. and then i think the the ongoing challenge to think beyond the billable hour and to think beyond tax and think of as an advisor. i’ll put a plug for strategic allies here as well, part of our new brand of being more than we see you at tax season, there’s a lot of opportunity to be that advisor or strategic ally to clients out there. and it’s a work in progress. i think every firm’s making progress there, but it’s a hardship to turn after heading in a direction for the last however many years, right?

jean caragher 

i can tell you, korby, the profession has been having that true advisor, you know, conversation for the past 30 years and again, maybe that’s something that the pandemic brings us, you know, just making that more front and center and firms and firm leadership being more proactive in making that happen and utilizing the tools and programs that could help them be true advisors, as opposed to accountants. and i’m not to apply that accountants do, you know, let’s, let’s face it, you know, the world needs accountants and cpas, but you know, you touched on pricing. there’s, there’s, there’s a lot of ways you know that these big issues can be addressed, but you’re right. you know, it’s a big ship. and when you’re asking people to change the way they’ve done things forever, that’s that’s a big ask. you know what? it’s possible, but it’s a big ask.

korby boswell 

and i think technology is kind of the undertone in all of the above, right? i mean, technology can help in recruiting, it can help in pricing. can help in, you know, what are we selling to clients and where are we truly being an advisor so we can replicate that model elsewhere. i mean, yeah, if i had to go back and do it all again, maybe i would have studied it. but that’s okay.

jean caragher 

that’s right, data analytics and all that, right? that’s a big deal. oh, goodness. so your network has expanded also in the course of these years, you know, since we had last had our conversation. but i’ll ask you again about the factors or skills that make accounting marketers successful. so in 2019 you talked about the need for accounting marketers to be flexible and being able to prioritize what they do. you even use the words you know, putting up which fire theory should put up first. i even used that quote as part of my presentation at summit in that rookie workshop, because. yes, yeah. marketers have worked like that for a long time, and some still are. so it’s really important to prioritize and to really just to own what they do. what are your thoughts today?

korby boswell 

i think those still remain true. i think maybe a more, maybe a bigger, bucket to put some of those in would be, i think project management is really important. so, you know, being organized, yes, but it’s more. it’s more than being organized. it’s about driving a project, driving the outcome, overcoming the hurdles along the way. and it’s something i’m taking some classes on project management and working on a credential for. i have not finished. i’ve had some other bumps in the road that have kept me from finishing it, but it’s still on my to do list. but as i was thinking about this interview, yeah, i think project management is something that accounting marketers can can really take and own. because, i mean, the beauty of project management is you don’t have to know all the answers, but if you ask the right questions. i mean, you can still, you know, you know, you can still get there. you don’t have to necessarily know every answer to every question. and so coupled with that, i think the other piece is having a research mindset and a willingness to explore. right? if covid taught us anything, it’s that we don’t know everything, and there are answers out there, and all you have to do is ask or research or google or whatever it is, but you can find it and make educated decisions. and if you stumble, adjust after you land kind of thing, and then keep moving down the road. and then the third thing that i think people need is good interpersonal communication skills and relationship building skills in your firms. and then externally, i think knowing people in aam, being involved in aam is incredibly important. i think a lot of my great ideas come from aam, from other members. you know, i’m not coming up with them in a vacuum, and so the credit certainly goes to to aam and to its members for being collaborative and open to sharing, and then being able to bring that back to your firm and have good relationships with your partners and leaders at the firm to to make it happen, to pull it together and project management over project manage it over the finish line, right?

jean caragher 

yeah, i know that both of us love aam, and it has been a very sharing, collaborative environment from the beginning, right from the beginning that, you know, most members are more than willing to share ideas or resources or templates or whatever it might be. so you know, all of us can be really proud about that, that that’s the that’s the culture that all of us have created for the organization. yeah, and i loved your response about doing the research and learning more. you know, i’ve done a lot of these conversations, and on many occasions, i will get the feedback that accounting marketers need to be curious. and that’s exactly what you were talking about, you know, you know, be curious about things. want to learn more about things. you know, dig into it. and also, you know, not that you have to become experts on topics, but you know, if there’s an initiative you’re working on, like, really delve into it, talk to other people you know, to be able to make your pitch, to pitch on it. so it’s that’s another commonality that’s kind of gone through over all these years, yeah, like that, be curious, be an inquisitive mind.

jean caragher 

li so tell us which of your personal skills do you think contributes most to your success, and this time, i’m not going to tell you what your response was. i’m going to let you answer this, and then we’ll then we’ll see how it may have changed. how’s that? you know, i

korby boswell 

don’t that’s, that’s that’s okay, because i don’t think i remember what i said last time. it’s been a little while, but i think it comes back to the similar two factors. i think it’s being able to research and being curious, right? there’s an answer out there. you just have to figure it out, put the puzzle together, if you will. and then i think being organized. and that project management component, i use a project management software. i flag emails in my inbox. i have sticky notes and lists on my desk, but keeping track of of what’s happening and taking copious notes so you can remember in a week because a lot of stuff’s happened in the last week. oh for sure, helps keep you organized, and it helps keep you in a place where you can prioritize, because any accounting marketer has probably more to do than they have time for. and so going back to that comment from 2019 about which buyer to put out first. i mean, that’s kind of your single source of truth. you need some way to decipher where should i be focusing my time? and if you don’t know, ask somebody, somebody might have an answer exactly, exactly, yeah. you can’t do it all, and don’t hold yourself to that standard either, because you’ll go crazy if you do

jean caragher 

so are you willing to tell us what project management software are you using?

korby boswell 

yeah, i use asana, and i like it for a lot of reasons. it has some interesting like views on the data, and you can kind of see, you know, how many things have been. deleted. there’s a collaboration component to it that i like. i work with some kind of outsourced pseudo teammates, and i can assign things to them, even if they don’t have an account in my org, as action items or to do items before we meet again in a week or two, kind of thing, which is cool, but it’s a nice view of here’s all the things, and you can label things and color code. so you know that these to do’s relate to such and such a webinar, or these to do’s relate to content marketing. i think it’s very similar to like a trello or a monday.com i think i demoed both of those before i picked asana. but the nice thing about asana too, seems like none of them are super expensive. i think i pay for a couple users, i think it’s maybe like $200 a year or something. oh, my goodness, well worth the investment?

jean caragher 

absolutely, absolutely. well, i’ll tell you that your answer in 2019 for your personal skill was your willingness to listen. being willing and able to and being willing and able to learn, you’ve touched on that again, so that that remains important, that’s that’s a common theme here. okay, so tell me what your best piece of advice would be for accounting marketers in 2019 you said that accounting marketers need to be their own biggest fan and to build that team or network to be able to support you and bounce ideas off of and we’ve touched on that too. any any different piece of advice for the marketers,

korby boswell 

there was a quote in there that said, marketing’s currency is qualified leads. and so i have that on a sticky note here on my desk. and so it’s, it’s easy to lose track of stuff in the whirlwind or with all the fires going on, but that’s where you’re, you know, that’s where our currency is, is in qualified leads. i joke that, you know, people look at you different if you call them and say, hey, i have a $50,000 opportunity. can you call them today? and so as marketers look to build their careers and advocate for themselves and get that seat at the table and become leaders, i think it is through. it’s through qualified leads. and i think it’s that continual message of that marketing is more than trinkets and pretty things. it’s so much more than that. and it’s easy to get pigeonholed as one of those, or the party planners, and not that those things are important and valuable, but there’s so much more that goes to it. so if you can bring that strategic edge to the conversation, it helps elevate you.

jean caragher 

absolutely, absolutely. okay, so then i will flip it around. what would be your best piece of advice for managing partners?

korby boswell 

this was a hard one. i really like my managing partner. he’s behind this wall here. actually, he’s at a conference today, but we share a wall

jean caragher 

we talked about that last time, and the positioning of your office is ideal because you’re right there. it just that’s it top of mind. that’s awesome.

korby boswell 

peek my head in there when needed. that’s right. and he, yeah, he’ll peek his head into but i have a couple pieces of his pieces of advice, i think, for managing partners. and the first would be to trust your marketers. i think there are some firms that maybe are less trusting. i’m fortunate to have the trust of my partners and our managing partner within reason right to act on the best interests of the firm. so trust, i think, is one a second one is, i think managing partners are crucial in advocating for the importance of content marketing and that educational stance to marketing. i mean, i was talking to somebody earlier this morning. i feel really fortunate. is pretty much nobody will tell me no to writing an article, especially if you line them up with a ghostwriter. if you say, i’ll interview you. or, you know, whatever you need to do to get them to say yes. but you know, my firm is beginning to see the importance of it, and they’re seeing web leads come from content marketing, and they’re sending their own articles to their clients. and so the winds of change, i think there are really, really important and we’re headed in the right direction here. we’re not all the way there, but i think the leadership team and the managing partner can have a huge impact in that, in the success of a content marketing program. and then my final piece of advice would be, just to remain in lockstep about how and where you want to grow. growth sounds easy, but it’s hard to be everything to everyone, and so pick and choose. you know, what’s your what’s the focus for the next three months, six months, 12 months, whatever it is, and then put a plan together to get there. and so it takes that collaboration with the leaders of your firm to to really zone in on that strategic. growth, something that was talked about at cement a lot this year, where is the best place for you to grow? you

jean caragher 

know, korby, that is a fantastic point, because earlier on, we were talking about how firms have so much business and more marketers are focusing on, you know, taking care of current clients and helping with recruiting, and firms are shying away from obtaining more new clients or new revenue. but when you do that strategically, you could also keep in mind which clients you shouldn’t be working with any longer, and really right sizing that client base. so it’s not, you’re right. it’s not just, let’s grow, like, however, you know, it could be. it’s okay. we want to grow, but in which areas and how quickly or slowly, you know, and specifically, like, how are we going to do that?

korby boswell 

very important, yeah. and i think every firm, and myself included, we’re still learning that, you know, not every opportunity is a good opportunity, even if it looks incredible. i mean, there are reasons to say no to opportunities, even if it’s the shiny car that came across your desk today, not every opportunity, or not every client is a good fit for your firm, and so amen, something we can all continue to refine and own in on as

jean caragher 

absolutely, absolutely. i would add that in 2019, your response was about encouraging managing partners to think of marketing as more thinking about marketing more as an investment, as opposed to an expense, and that it really adds, you know, it’s an investment in the firm’s reputation and financial health moving forward. so there’s commonalities there too, and you’re seeing it coming out in different ways.

korby boswell 

yeah, i would agree. yep. it is, it is an investment. it takes marketing to get you there.

 

 

posted on september 30, 2024