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the disruptors
with liz farr
dawn brolin, cpa, cfe, intentionally shrank her firm, powerful accounting, from 11 to three team members, the opposite of the way most firms grow. she also drastically cut her client list, while nearly tripling her fees from a select group of just 19 clients.
“i decided i wanted to change my life,” brolin says. “i want to change my staff’s life. and i want to change the way my clients work with me where they weren’t worried about getting a bill because they called me and asked me a question.”
more podcasts and videos: jason blumer & julie shipp: move leaders out of client service | james graham: drop the billable hour and you’ll bill more | karen reyburn: fix your marketing and fix your business | giles pearson: fix the staffing crisis by swapping experience for education | jina etienne: practice fearless inclusion | bill penczak: stop forcing smart people to do stupid work | sandra wiley: staffing problem? check your culture | scott scarano: first, grow people. then firm growth can follow |
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part of that change in dawn’s life was her passion for coaching college softball, where she serves as the team’s designated motivator. because softball season overlaps with tax season, she leaves the office at 2 pm, five days a week. no one in her firm works more than 35 hours a week.
she changed how she worked with clients by moving a select few to relationship pricing, which ron baker calls subscription pricing.
to develop her pricing structure, she worked backward from the income she and her bookkeeper wanted to earn. “i knew i wanted to make it a price point that my existing clients that we wanted to work with could afford and that we were able to still get paid what we wanted to get paid,” brolin explains. now, on the first of every month, she gets $40,000, which covers payroll and business expenses.
today, her firm consists of herself, a bookkeeper, and a part-time admin. she’s not interested in adding anyone else. “we’ve got it now where the three of us are so streamlined, we’re so organized, we’re so integrated with technology, and we have it down so well, that i can’t imagine bringing another person in that would disrupt that,” brolin says. she also now has “two people in my firm that i do not have to babysit,” an issue that became a serious and expensive problem when her firm was bigger.
13 more takeaways from dawn brolin
- spend time with your clients to understand what they want and need to achieve their goals.
- one of the biggest challenges that the accounting industry has is that we’re afraid to lose clients. we tend to be people pleasers. but we don’t have to be our clients’ punching bags.
- be productive and intentional with your time. don’t start your day by opening your email. establish a routine that’s manageable for getting your work done. prioritize your work and establish reasonable expectations for what you can get done.
- use integrated technology to smooth your workflow. for tax prep, dawn uses lacerte, which goes straight to smartvault, which integrates with docusign for her 8879s.
- unlearn your habit of working long hours. find something you’re passionate about outside of work. do it during the week, not just on weekends. this will bring you more energy and resolve to get the work done more efficiently.
- make memories for yourself. it’s ok to do things you enjoy. you deserve it.
- when you treat people the way they should be treated, they perform better. infuse them with grit, confidence, and courage, and believe in them.
- by being a good person and uplifting others, you can change the lives of people in ways you never imagined.
- it’s a different work experience when you walk into an office of happy people who are lifting you up and not tearing you down.
- most people fail more than they succeed. the more you learn how to manage and handle failure, the more successful you will be overall.
- learn to say no to projects for which you don’t have the capacity. this will decrease your anxiety level tremendously.
- ask your team what’s important to them in work, and make that happen. make life better for your staff, and they’ll work harder for you.
- ask your team what their frustrations are. their frustrations may not be the same as yours. solve for their pain points. help them to be more successful.
more about dawn brolin
dawn brolin is the designated motivator for accounting professionals and the ceo of powerful accounting, inc. brolin has been a well-known and respected educator and motivator for her clients, other accounting professionals, and technology solution providers for over two decades. she is known for innovative collaborations within the accounting profession, including with her technology ecosystem partners, who are included in her team brolin starting lineup. brolin is a member of the intuit tax council, the adp advisory board, and the avalara quickbooks advisory board. she has also received many designations and recognitions throughout her career including the most recent “the 2022 top presenters awards“ by cpaacademy.org as well as insightful accountant’s 2020 top niche practice proadvisor: forensics” and one of accounting today’s “2018, 2019, 2020, and 2021 top 100 most influential people in accounting.” brolin’s podcast, the dm disruption podcast can be heard on apple, spotify and google as well as on her website, dawnbrolin.com. she can be reached at dawn@powerfulaccounting.com and on linkedin at https://www.linkedin.com/in/dawnbrolin.
transcript
(transcripts are made available as soon as possible. they are not fully edited for grammar or spelling.)
liz farr 00:04
welcome to accounting disrupter conversations. i’m your host, liz farr, from 卡塔尔世界杯常规比赛时间. my guest today is dawn brolin, author of the designated motivator and the designated motivator for accounting professionals, the ceo of powerful accounting, host of the dm disruption podcast. wow, that’s a lot of stuff. dawn, how are you?
dawn brolin 00:33
i’m great, liz, thanks for having me on. i you know, anytime that i can have a conversation with a good friend, we’ve known each other for so many years, and, you know, really excited to be here and just passionate about helping other accountants, you know, improve their lives, their firms, you know, or just overall improving their their everything that they’re experiencing in life.
liz farr 00:55
that’s great. well, i am all about making things better for other accountants. yes.
dawn brolin 01:01
100 %.
liz farr 01:02
yeah. now, don, can you tell the listeners just a little bit about your firm? like, where you are what you do that kind of stuff?
dawn brolin 01:11
yeah, sure. so we’re a tiny, tiny firm out of windham, connecticut, there’s three staff, myself and two others. you know, over over the time, powerful accounting has more from 10 employees. and now down to three, it was at one point a sole practitioner. and what we primarily focus on right now, we focus on a very specific group of clients that we’ve enjoyed working with over the past few years. and we’ll talk a little bit about how we’ve shifted our model here at powerful accounting. so we do you know, client accounting services, we do tax services, tax planning, business advisory, technology advisory, i do a lot of irs representation work, which i’m very passionate about defending taxpayers from the irs and getting them out of the trouble that they’ve gotten themselves into. and, you know, anyone says the irs and they get scared immediately. and so i hope, you know, i try to really help the clients, it’s more of a therapy thing that we do. i’m a good therapist, i guess, as well with with those types of cases. and i also am a certified fraud examiner. so i do some fraud case work. it’s not the primary focus of my business, but certainly preventing fraud and the small businesses that i work with is definitely top of mind for me.
liz farr 02:22
well, that’s, that’s great. and, you know, and, and i remember you, when i finished my masters of accounting, i wanted to become a cfe, also. okay, but never really got around to it didn’t get the support from the firm. so thinking that that train done left the station?
dawn brolin 02:42
yeah. well, you know, it’s, it’s funny that you say that, because and i think we were had very similar experiences where, you know, i was in a firm at one point, i was a partner in a firm, and they weren’t really encouraging of me to go in and get advanced training or doing those types of things, which i think is out of, there’s a couple of reasons for it. but certainly, you know, busting out on my back on my own, i kind of call it and re regrouping and recreating what my real visions and goals and what i really wanted to do for clients. and i wanted it to be up to me. and so i can totally appreciate what you’re saying about that. because, you know, i didn’t get my cpa until i was 42 years old, and my cfe when i was 47. and i’m currently 52. so i’m, it’s not like that i’ve been doing this for forever. i’ve been in accounting forever. but you know, sometimes it’s okay to get that stuff a little bit later in life.
liz farr 03:34
that is very true. now, when we last met in person a couple of years ago, as you mentioned, you had a bigger firm, it was about 10. back then. but now you’re down to a just a micro firm, as you mentioned, can you tell us about how that came to be?
dawn brolin 03:54
yeah, so i kind of i laugh a little bit, i giggle to say, you know, i was i don’t think i was that great of a leader. i in whatever capacity because there’s a difference between being a thought leader and being the leader of people, and specifically of people who you’re responsible for. and so i grew the for the firm to 10. i really felt like we grew fast, in a little bit of a way. and then it was time where i couldn’t really do actual work. i was more obsessed or in charge of making sure people were doing their job. and there were times where i didn’t do a very good job of making sure they were doing their job. and specifically, in one scenario, we were doing the work for a law firm. and i hired this person specifically for that job for that. that’s it. this is what you’re in charge of along with doing some tax returns. and the work just never gotten done properly. and we got ourselves into a situation where you know that that law firm was audited by the bar you know those random make sure you’re iolta the accounts are up to date. and we didn’t have it all together. and so i had to pull the rest of the team together for six months, we couldn’t work on anything else. but this job. let’s just say i pay that loan off about a year ago, i had to borrow a significant amount of money to pay the people. right, i don’t pay my team to do the work. and we weren’t collecting any money. someone has to pay for that. and i’ve always been brought up my parents have always you take responsibility for the decisions, you make failures and successes, both. but you always are good by your word. and so i said, whatever it takes whatever resources it takes for me to carry the burden, to make sure that i make this right. would have been easy to just say, oh, yeah, we totally jacked up, sorry, sue me. and here’s my insurance information. that’s just not who i am. and so that was really a pivotal moment for me, that one situation that happened was 2017, as a matter of fact. and then, and then, over time, my decision to coach softball in during tax season itself kind of like transformed the way my employees wanted to work, didn’t want to work that they wanted me to work as much as they were. and i was like, wait a minute, this is my firm, my firm, i built this firm, you didn’t build this firm. i mean, maybe we built it together, but you can’t really tell me what to do, because you’re not my boss. but so it’s kind of transformed and came to the point where i have two people in my firm that don’t do not have to babysit, i don’t have to worry about what they are or are not doing. because you know, liz, being the owner of a firm, you’re gonna hear about it from your clients if you’re not getting the work done. and i’m the first person they would call, and which, which is what i’d want, right? and so we’ve got it now where the three of us are such such that we’re so streamlined, we’re so organized, we’re so integrated technology, we have it down so well, that i can’t imagine bringing another person in that would disrupt that. so speaking of disruption, right? why would i fix what isn’t broken at this point.
liz farr 07:12
that’s, that’s amazing that you have built something that works so well and so tightly together, that supports you in what you want to do and your team in what they want to do. and also, your clients, your most important of all your clients, they get what they need. that’s amazing.
dawn brolin 07:39
yeah, and it’s really, you know, we’ll talk a little bit about this transition that we’ve been going through over the last i would say, seven or eight months really. and changing our mindset, and the clients are better off. as a matter of fact, i’ll give you a great example, this past weekend. nicole was one of the one of the fantastic three, she went out to a client who had their 20th anniversary celebration of their business. and we flew her to pennsylvania, she went there and joe, you know, was there to support i was at a tournament, so i couldn’t be there. but she was there to support her, we sent flowers and we like we get really deep with those clients and we have 19 right now that we specifically support, you get deep with those people, instead of so broad brush with so many clients, you’d never can’t really get deep with a firm of three, a micro firm, we can’t go deep with many, but we can go deep with a lower amount of clients and it’s been amazing what we’ve learned.
liz farr 08:41
that is really really amazing. now now in addition to shrinking your firm, i’ve been listening to you on podcasts about what you’re doing with your pricing which is really really different. can you can you talk about this
dawn brolin 09:03
i get fired up about this because i’m not kidding this if i’m lying i’m dying strike me right now. my whole life has changed my entire life now i have to say during covid i was i thrive during covid and i mean that not obviously physically or anything like that. i made my work my priority like i was laser focused there was nothing else to do. and so we just had a really good we were helping so many people it felt so good to be able to pick me somebody calls you you pick up the phone and you’re like don’t worry your your your check is coming those individuals should the economic recovery checks that were coming or what how do i get a ppp loans? i’m a schedule c can i even get one? yes, you can. the things that we could do to help people survive during the worst time that i’ve ever been through besides 911 which was also you know, a different scale of things. but this was detrimental to the world. and we were able to help people. so we thrived during that time, in that we were able to help so many people. i feel like that was the first glimpse of what we really meant to the public. and to business owners was like the first time of we really need our accountant. and they did. and so that was great. but what’s what’s happened over time is i’ve realized, and i started coaching, and i realized what i wanted for my life. and i wanted to be able to support my family, which is my husband, i decided when the kids were born, one of us had to be the breadwinners, and i wanted to be that person. and that was my commitment to the family. and so you know, that’s always been a thing but it’s never been where we were like really thriving. i’m went through some tough times in business and whatever, all kinds of different things that have happened and all of them great learning lessons and life lessons. but this past fall, it was actually a it was actually about a year ago. i worked with mike triantos from jirav. i don’t know if you know, mike, wonderful man. you know, you probably you you definitely do go into a conference. liz, you’ve you’ve seen mike. and he started to talk to me about fp&a. right, financial planning forecasting. kpis, like things i knew about but didn’t really have the tools. so he started talking to me about brolin. listen, think about how you can provide services to your clients, where they’re not worried about getting a monthly invoice or, or an invoice for hourly billing every monday, i used to do billing every monday to make sure i had money by friday, so i could pay my employees like that was, has been almost, i think a lot of practitioners go through that. and there are people who will listen to this podcast, who probably are in that spot today. i hope to put years back on the lives of my fellow practitioners through this method that we have implemented. and it’s not a secret method because ron baker wrote a book about it. so, you know, i started this process with mike and it didn’t really sink in until september of 2022. and i said, okay, you’re what you’re trying to tell me is, if i change the way i bill, and i put people on what ron call subscription pricing, now, i felt it needed to be more intimate than that. so i called it relationship pricing. same thing that ron baker’s teaching, just calling it something different. and i realized if i sat down, and we went through the client list, and now and i have a course that i’m writing about it right now, exactly the ins and outs and how to do it, because i know people struggled with how not so much the why, but the how. and we decided that i said to nicole on my staff, i said, nicole, we got to sit down and go through the client list in the first thing we’re going to do is we’re going to identify the clients we like, don’t care how much we build them. that’s not our first focus. our first focus is who do we want to work with? and so we sat down, we went through, and we identified some people. and then we sorted it. we said, okay, well, what revenue have we produced over the last year with these people? and we said, okay, well, we need to triple that. we had triple that revenue, because what we’ve been doing is we’ve been leading with compliance. right, we’re leading, gotta get the books done to do the sales tax return or do the tax return or whatever, right? those due dates. and i said, we’ve got to be proactive with people, do they have wills? do they have buy sell agreements, if they’re in a partnership like, these sounds silly, right? like, well, of course they should have those. but they don’t know. oh, no, no, and we’re right. and we’re just sitting there going, what the heck. so we said we these are the here are the things are we doing forecasting? what are their business goals? where do they want to land in their business? where do they ever want to sell it? do they want to add employees? like, it’s all about asking the question. so anyway, i said to nicole, i say, okay, great. so let’s put a pricing structure together. how much money do you want to make nicole? she’s a bookkeeper going back to her to school to get a master’s degree in accounting, okay. so she knows how to do bookkeeping. she’s not doesn’t want to do taxes. she doesn’t want to get advanced in any of those cool. she says, well, i feel greedy at what i’m going to ask for. i said, be as greedy as you want to be. and she told me what she wanted to make. and it was a six figure number. and i said, i said, then let’s do it. we sat down we set the pricing up in a structure in a way that on the first of every month payroll is there for the month we don’t even think about it. expenses for the business are paid for we don’t think about it. we don’t talk about money. and the clients, we talk to them, they call us we respond to w is liscio for our communicating, so we’re just like on it. and it’s like those are our priority everybody else will get to you. but these 19 clients are the most important and liz $40,000 a month to people doing the work myself and nicole, nicole does most of the work because she does all the client accounting services that’s up on payroll, does all these things. our systems are integrated. tracy, she’s our admin. she doesn’t she works off tax season 10 to 15 hours a week during tax season 20. she is 100% client facing she answers questions she she like is like the gateway. because you know why liz, i gotta do the work. i gotta get the work done. i don’t have to listen, i love my clients, i want to talk to them. if you’re in relationship pricing, i’ll get on a five hour phone call with you, i’ll come to your house, we’ll go for a ride. if you’re not in the relationship pricing, you’re just another customer. right? doesn’t mean it’s not you’re not important to me. that’s not what i mean. but that i’m giving my time to those clients who have committed to me, and i’m committed to them. and just think about 19 clients to focus on 19 i could do them. right. yeah. it’s been transformative in so many ways between, you know, cashflow is, i’ve never experienced this ever. and i’ve been in business for 25 years this june. never experienced this type of cash consistent cash flow. it’s very clear what work needs to be done every day. we’re working 30 to 35 hours a week. we’re not killing ourselves. and it’s just because i decided i wanted to change my life. i want to change my staff’s life. and i want to change the way my clients work with me where they weren’t worried about getting a bill because they called me and asked me a question.
liz farr 17:11
that’s amazing. i think that is something that so many accountants dream. yes. but you you’ve done it. so this can be done. you’re, i mean, you’re a phenomenal person, and you’re more energetic than a lot of other people. i know,
dawn brolin 17:33
i don’t even drink coffee.
liz farr 17:36
but you know, you’ve done it. and so this is proof that it is possible to do this.
dawn brolin 17:44
i wish that i was my 28 what as a 29 year old self when i when this all went down. if i had done this back then i number one to kind of help more people. number two, i probably wouldn’t have destroyed people because believe me, bodies are always behind us. and it’s not intentional. we just don’t know, we don’t know. so how you treat an employee or how you handle a client’s situation or whatever. it’s only because you’re doing what you know. and so, you know, 25 years later, i’m like, boy, i wish i had done that different or that different. you can’t dwell on that stuff. you just learn from it and move on with this mindset of having relationships with the client setting a fee, and i mean, i lowballed it liz. i’m at my feet. my three levels are 750 a month. 1500 and 2500. i know i low balled it. but but i’m, i’m happy. you’re happy.
liz farr 18:46
yeah. and those are those are pretty reasonable amounts. um, i know penny breslin, when she does pricing for her bookkeeping services in her remote cfo services. she compares the cost to a full, full time in house bookkeeper. absolutely. and so, you know, even 2500 a month is a steal.
dawn brolin 19:16
it’s a steal. and it gives them you know, when some of them have multiple entities, some of them have, you know, two businesses and a rental property. i mean, at the end of the day, i knew i wanted to make it a price point that my existing clients that we wanted to work with could afford that we were able to still get paid what we wanted to get paid. and we were still able to operate will we shift and adjust at the end of the year now that we’ve gone through a year of it? absolutely. will we lose some probably maybe i don’t know. but i’m i’m over. i’m all done with worrying about it. and i think that’s one of the biggest challenges that the accounting industry has. they’re afraid to lose clients.
liz farr 19:57
yes. yes. because the first thing that most accountants will do when they complain about price is cut the price. yep, not not point out? well, here’s the value that you receive for what you paid me. and you know, and partly they don’t do that, because they haven’t actually provided any value beyond the tax return or the books. that’s it. aptly.
dawn brolin 20:29
there’s so much more to it. i mean, it’s funny, because this morning, i had a client that sent me a message to liscio and said, hey, have we got this, get done that get done this get done? you know, for $1,500 a month, i shouldn’t be chasing you. and my response back to him was, number one, we’ve been waiting for six weeks on some answers that we send you that you still haven’t gotten to us, we can’t finish our work. that’s number one. but number two, you’re not paying me to be your mom. if you need something, you ask for it. but if you think that the $1,500 a month you’re paying is too much, then let’s have that converse, like i’m very direct. i’m very hey, guys, listen, if you don’t think this is worth it, than this isn’t worth it for you. but i can tell you right now i am not. first of all, i’m not at your beck and call. it doesn’t make me a 24/7 available person. because that price is really expensive. right? and it doesn’t make me your mom or your babysitter. you’re still a business owner, and you own your own business. so talk to me like a professional. he’s like, oh, okay, i get it. like, and i tell that i do. i do sometimes i post on facebook, we are not punching bag bags for people. and we don’t have to be. and we don’t. this is funny. that’s, that’s, that’s great. i’m
liz farr 21:52
i wish that more accountants would just take a little inspiration from you, and grow a little backbone. yes.
dawn brolin 22:00
because that’s what they deserve. yes. and you know, and i think i would say 95% of accounting professionals are people pleasers, because you got to deal with the public man. and that’s not easy. no. and i think that, you know, as as you get gain experience and go through it, sometimes we do get pigeon holed in a corner. and we don’t realize we don’t have to be the one when you get a text or you get an email that we have to panic over it. i’ve been there. i’ve been there. i’ve been the reactive accountant. i’ve been the person who, like my stomach goes to my throat when somebody’s upset with me. and now it’s, uh, just take a step back, think about maybe where they are in that moment. let me think of them first. okay, now let’s just let’s hope let’s get on a call. let’s talk about it. but let me just make sure you understand you don’t have the right to talk to me like that. i’m here for you always willing to help you. but i don’t have to be your punching bag. you know. and so i think that that’s really important for us as accountants that we embrace that.
liz farr 23:12
absolutely. absolutely. now now in other podcasts that i’ve heard you in other webinars, productivity and efficiency are really big things that you focus on. yes. and so how has that helped you to build a practice that supports your life? yeah,
dawn brolin 23:34
i love that question, liz. because at the end of the day, people will say to you to all of us, you must be so busy. and i used to say, yeah, i’m really busy. and now i say, no, you know what i am, i’m productive and intentional. so when i come into my office, i don’t open my email. don’t open your email. why would you do that? why would you put set yourself up for failure? that’s to me, that’s what email does to people. it’s like, okay, i’m here. i’m now an email. now i’m in gold. i’m in i’m like, absorbed by the stories that are coming through the email. somebody needs something something’s going on, instead of what are my priorities today. so i had to do that, liz, because of coaching softball, coach college softball, we just finished the regional tournament we lost in the regional tournament, but i’ll tell you something right now, it isn’t always about the wins. it’s about the people you’re with. and this group of young ladies were outstanding people and humans. it was one of the most fun seasons i’ve ever had with these kids. but anyway, but in order for me to do that to coach college softball, i had to do things differently because i’m during tax season. i have to leave at two o’clock to go to practice. yeah. so you can’t you can’t do the same things over and over again, expect different results when you’re gonna have a schedule like that. and that was a priority to me. so i would come in, and i would look at my work, and i would go, okay, i’ve got four individual tax returns and one business return. ready, set, go. and that was the only thing i focused on, because i had four, maybe five hours to get all of that done. that was the priority. so if i finished those jobs, that was my priority for the day after practice, i didn’t have to come back to the office. i got that stuff done. tracy, who’s my admin, she helps me prioritize these, like, i promised these people, you’d have this returned on this week, those were my priorities, then whatever tracy promises someone gets done first, because i got to support her in her word, right. so the productivity component is partially mental. and yet your ability to prioritize and not get wrapped up in into dark, deep holes, which happens really often we get into these things, right? rabbit holes everywhere. so i set that priority. but i also made sure that my technology could support me, i’m very, very driven by integrated technology, where if tracy has to enter something one time, and it goes to two or three platforms, that’s the right way to do it. and so you know, the, the productivity, part of my practice is very purposeful. because, for instance, i’ll give you a great simple productivity tool that actually i interviewed a gentleman i can’t remember his name off top my head, because i’m, i’m so excited about being here, focused on you. but he he had talked to gaynor who’s my content manager and said, hey, and they were they were doing something totally separate had nothing to do with me, it was about smart vault. and in this, this component of my tax practice, is i use lacerte, and lacerte dumps directly into smartvault. and then with smartvault has a direct integration with docusign for my 8879s. so my process is so automated, i’m literally clicking a button. and that’s all i’m doing. and so i set that up for success, so that i don’t have i don’t have file cabinets. in this office, anywhere i don’t, i print paper, because i’m a person who i got to print their documents. so i can use this little guy right here. so the red pencil, i still use a red pencil. because i think that’s just, that’s how my brain works. i don’t like to have it on a screen and do i gotta, i don’t touch it. but she interviewed this guy. and he had seen my webinar on that simple workflow, that one component, he eliminated paper. and this was what he said to me. he said, i was able to go to all of my son, this is last year 2022, all of my son’s baseball games. he’d saved enough time in his work day, that he could go to his kids games. if i never help another person, i will have done my job because this guy was able to see his kids games. that’s what productivity and purpose intentional work does for you.
liz farr 28:07
yeah, that’s, that’s just amazing. you know, i remember working with technology that didn’t all work. and sometimes it was even the same damn platform. right? and, yeah, and you know, thomson reuters was bad back then. and i entered the same thing here. and then here, and then here, and hope that the three of them are the same.
dawn brolin 28:36
yeah. and that’s funny that you say that, liz, because that’s the truth. the truth behind it is sometimes. and you’ll you’ll watch like a shiny penny come through a new a new technology that integrates with qbo, or an integrates with whatever. and it it, it does. but is it dumping the data properly? is it managing the data properly? and that’s where we get into trouble. that’s where we start to we try is that trust, but verify conversation? okay, this says it dumps it into qbo. but how does it dump it into qbo? is it
liz farr 29:07
right, right? right. so amazing. yeah. yeah. now, what are some, some tips you can give accountants? just a couple of quick, easy wins?
dawn brolin 29:21
yeah, definitely. from my perspective, that simple tip of when you be purposeful and intentional when you get into your office, have a routine, but have a routine that’s manageable. i’m somebody you know, and it’s hard, especially when you’re in an office environment. it’s hard. you know, so for me, i work i have, this is an office on my property. i don’t have anyone else that works. here we’re 100% remote, tracy’s in florida. nicole’s 15 minutes from here. she was actually here this morning, but she wouldn’t normally be here. if you’re in an office environments really easy to get into conversations and what they call the water cooler. whatever you want to call it. and that’s great. i think that’s important for people as humans to have that interaction. what understand that when you get to the desk, what do you do now? what are you focused on? are you looking at your calendar to see what appointments you have? that’s reasonable. but if you’re diving directly into email, i think you’re making a mistake. i think you’ve got to learn to prioritize your work and say, if i in order for me to leave this desk today, what has to get done? and so if you can do that, identify those and make them reasonable. don’t try to get 20 returns done in six hours. like that’s unreasonable. right? yeah. so have a reasonable expectation for yourself, but then make that your priority. you know, you can always check email at the end of the day, by the way, i know that their speed limits, but i’ve never heard of email law, where you have to check your email for one hour a day, at these particular times, the government hasn’t taken over emails yet, the government has not said you have to check your email every day. so you can release that from your brain and do what’s productive and what needs to get done. like i got in here today, i have an audit tomorrow. i’m an irs auditor coming in here. my number one priority is making sure i’m ready for that audit tomorrow. okay, now, bonus for whatever else i get done. right. that’s one really big tip. and i think it’s really changed my life. and the second tip along with that, i truly believe finding something you’re passionate about outside of your office will bring you more energy and resolve. and again, that purposeful work will give you more energy to get it done better, faster, more efficiently, whatever that means for you. both. i think what we do is we we get into this industry, and we think we have to wear that ad but at our badge of honor. and we really don’t right. i mean, you know, i mean, we don’t know. and so i think that, you know, we learned that out of college, we come out of college and we get into the big into a big firm, we get our two years of experience, and we’re on track for cpa. and that’s what we learn right from the beginning. try to unlearn that. and so because that’s difficult to do to unlearn it, you have to do something very intentional to change that. and so i went a little drastic, maybe, maybe, maybe i’m a little over the top, liz, maybe. i know you don’t know me like that. you do. but if i’m going to be over it, so for me, it’s like i’ve got to go do i’m gonna go do something. i’m gonna go coach softball for me, heather satterley, you know, heather, heather satterley went and rode horses. yeah. you know, look at stacey byrne was traveling the world. any work from anywhere. it’s those, it’s making that decision that i love to play pool. so go join a pool league, or i like to do x, i like to run i like to walk. i like to swim, whatever it may be, and go do that. not only on the weekends, but do it during the week. and guess what, i’m gonna make it crazy. do it during the day. i know. i got crazy there.
liz farr 33:17
sacrilege. heresy. oh, mine.
dawn brolin 33:21
yes, this is we’re gonna have to maybe ban this episode, because this sounds normal. but those are my two big tips. because you know what, at the end of the day, you should be implementing integrated technologies, you should be making life at work better. and sometimes, and allowing your staff to do the same. let them have a better life. they’ll work harder for you because they appreciate the fact that nicole, we don’t clock in and out anymore. we don’t clock in and out. we don’t have to track time anymore. because why do we care if we don’t have to. and i was always a believer in that. i was always a believer in tracking time. until i realized that that was unreasonable. and not necessary. nicole, if you’re getting your job done, i don’t care if it takes you 10 hours or 100 that’s on you. and now she has the ability to goes to her travels with her kid when he goes to wrestling competitions and you know those kinds of things. and i think that that’s really important that people start to embrace that now. i’m not waiting till i’m retired.
liz farr 34:26
yeah, yeah, making those priorities. and something else that a few other people have talked to me about is putting the emphasis not on the hours, but on the deliverable. yes. if you if you get your work done, does it matter whether you got it done in three days and you have two days off? or whether you took all five days? yeah.
dawn brolin 34:59
and you know, so maybe it took you seven. so maybe it took you five days this week and two days next week, and then you take those other three days off. yeah. you know, and i think that the quality of life and the quality of quality of your work life is really important.
liz farr 35:17
yes. really important. absolutely. yeah. you know, and that was a big reason why i got out of public accounting. i had lunch with a cpa and lawyer friend of mine, and i was going through the litany. it was like, oh, yeah, i got tennis elbow, and my ulcer’s come back and my hips killing me. and my back hurts. and i’ve got my sciatica again. and she said, liz, your job is killing you. you you have to quit. yeah.
dawn brolin 35:54
well, i want to say something about that, liz, because of you’re listening to this podcast, and that’s the environment you are either creating as a firm owner, or an environment that you’re living in as an employee. you might want to think twice. if you if you have employees who are constantly going to the doctor, and they got this going on, or they’re constantly stressed out, they’re missing all their kids recitals. they’re missing. you can’t miss that stuff. i don’t care what have deadlines in front of you. you don’t miss one.
liz farr 36:25
no. no, you absolutely can’t know besides being a cpa, you’re also an author. so you’ve written two books with a designated motivator in the title. what does that mean? today? fantastic. i love it. i love it.
dawn brolin 36:52
yeah, so, so interesting for you actually, i went to mike michalowicz had a it was what they call a retreat, a book retreat to learn how to write a book. and jody padar was there as well, which was funny, because we didn’t know each other was we didn’t know each other was going we knew each other.
liz farr 37:11
you know, i’ve thought about going to that. and doing i should have gone and
dawn brolin 37:16
it was so fun. liz. it was really, it was a really a great experience. now, this was probably eight years ago, seven or eight years ago, right? and i went there and they’re trying to inspire you’re like your thoughts? and what could you write a book about? and you’re trying to, like, leave there with, you know, something started? what am i gonna write? like? i don’t know, what am i so i just, i couldn’t i couldn’t come up with anything. it just wasn’t there. and then in 2019, when i started coaching, this is the first book that designated motivator, i went to this. so my, my friend, and a former teammate of mine is the head coach now now in her 22nd year just finished her 22nd year of coaching at eastern connecticut state. and she said, hey, brolin, why don’t you come coach with me? this was in 2018. and i said, pat, dude, i do your taxes. like, you know, i’m a cpa, right? and i do taxes. she’s like, yeah, so i’m like, yeah, i’m like, at this my busiest time of year, and you want me to coach softball during the same time. and i was like, i gotta think about it. and she’s like, come on you. the kids would love you. you’d be awesome. i’m like, all right. all right. i’ll tell you what, i probably can come a couple of days a week. but i can’t i can’t commit to a full season like, you know, let’s see how it works out. she’s like, alright, i’ll take it. so i go to the first meeting and they hand out the bag tags. and, you know, i’m like, alright, mine says volunteer assistant on and i didn’t quite like that. i was like, i gotta come up with a better name than that. so i went to the first practice. and i watched these kids play ball. and i’m like, you guys are unbelievable. like your you guys are awesome. you guys are strong. you’re whipping the ball around like 80 mile, 90 miles an hour. like i’m just like, blown away. and i hadn’t been involved in softball since i graduated just because, you know, now i had kids and i had a life and that was my life now. and i just was like, this is unbelievable. i’ll never miss a practice. i’m never missing anything. like i like i became instantly obsessed instantly. and i said, i thought about it. i’m like, well, i don’t really remember the technical game. and i don’t really remember like, how would i teach someone how to hit that’s not my role. like that’s not what i’m going to be because it’s not my experience. so i said, i’ll tell you what, i’m going to i’m going to come up with my name and i came back to this office. and i have the bag tag in the other room i have is part of when i when i give sometimes i do keynotes on it and i use that bag tag. and i came over i did arts and crafts here at powerful accounting. and i wrote, well, the first name i am, i’m the co head coach. because, you know, why would i? why would i want to be an assistant, so i’m like a name myself, the co head coach. and then the next thing i put on this bag tag, and i didn’t know that it was gonna be a thing, the designated motivator, like, i’m the one who’s gonna motivate this team. and the year before, liz, this team was 12, and 26. they won 12 games and lost 26. let’s just say they weren’t that good. they weren’t that good from the record perspective. so the whole, that team comes back, and we add some freshmen, there were five, five or six freshmen come in. and so now we’ve got this new team. and you know, they’re like, our goal is to be 600. we want to win more than half of our games this year. i’m like, what are you talking about? we’re going for the national tournament. are you out of your mind? i remember the meeting like it was yesterday. i’m like, we’re either going for it or we’re not. you’re like, oh, okay, brolin, whatever, you know, because they don’t know me at all. and i’m a psycho as you, as you’ve seen me before, i’m a crazy person. and i get passionate about everything. so, my role now i’m the designated motivator. and we in that team went from being 12 and 26. to third in the country. wow. third in the country. and i truly believe it’s when you treat people, the way they should be treated. and you infuse confidence, and courage and guts and grit. and whatever. you can bring someone who was maybe, you know, a batting 200 to someone who could bat 353 75. because all the it’s all here, liz. yeah. yeah. and i was like, i gotta write about this experience. because, you know, i was used julia, she was my biggest example. you know, i got to know that kid. where she she had dimples. she has like she can this chick can bring out three dimples on one face. that’s pretty impressive. right? so i would see her before a game. and i’d be like, how many dimples did julie have today? because i know whether we’re gonna win or lose just based on that. and i’d be like, julia, how many do we have today, she’d have three and i’m like, oh my god, we’re gonna kill this team. like, in that was like our thing. and then another kid that we use like these, you know, candies, and we’d be all wrong color candy, you didn’t get a hit because of the color of the candy. right? so it was like, we just made everything fun and encouraging and confident and powerful and fun. and so i wrote that book about that. because whether you’re in sports, in an office environment, you’re at with family, with friends, in any environment, corporate or not. and you can instill confidence and belief in someone instead of now i was brought up a little bit differently, and maybe you were too was more of do it. or you’re, you know, you’re gonna get pounded or whatever you gonna run like, it was like, you fail, you’re gonna run, go ahead 70 laps until you throw up. you don’t do that these days, you can’t do that anymore, you don’t get the same response. and that’s okay. i think that’s what people don’t realize me, i see a lot of social media where, you know, coaches are screaming at kids, right? there’s a way for, for everyone to treat people. and it’s that old adage of, you’re gonna get more from honey than you are from fire or whatever, right? those kinds of things. and i realized that i want to write that book for people to understand that you can do things that you never imagined you can do. and you can change the lives of people like you and never imagined you ever would. just by being a good person, and being, you know, uplifting other people and not tearing people down. and so that’s why i wrote that book, because i finally was after that book retreat, found a reason to write a book. and i know some people say, well, i’ll just write a book, because i’ll help you get more speaking engagements. i’m like, that doesn’t sound right to me. i’m gonna write a book because i’m passionate about whatever that books about. and now with that book, every season, i update the book. so i’ll say what happened in 2023. here’s kind of the experience we had 23 what lessons did we learn throughout the season and what mattered most and we have this, this philosophy of what’s important now that we teach the kids to try to help them maneuver through their days of college, setting them up for success when they leave. and so i wrote that book to hopefully encourage other coaches or other leaders of groups. what kind of outcome you can have on another person? whether it’s a group project, or a big audit, or whatever, that if you all work together and encourage each other like liz, man, i don’t know how you do it, you seem to always be able to tie out ap, like i can’t tie out ap ever would. that’s a silly example. but when you have the kind of atmosphere when you walk into an office, and you’re greeted by happy people who are lifting you up, not tearing you down. it’s a different work experience. yes. and so i wrote that book. and i said, you know what? and i throw covid, because i wrote the book in 2020, this first book, and i said, oh, my goodness, i’m watching social media, i’m watching these practitioners depressed, don’t want to be in the industry anymore. they’re burnt out. yeah, i need to help them. so i wrote the book, the designated motivator for accounting professionals, because i wanted to help. even just one accounting professionals, life be better. and that’s why i wrote that book. and, you know, i’m working on the next book, which will be for entrepreneurs to help encourage them, because the sacrifice they give the sacrifices, you lose, you know, whether you’re an entrepreneur, it doesn’t matter, whatever. you’re sacrificing, especially entrepreneurs, when they’re out there working those 14 hour days to get their business going. and they’re not able to put those kids to bed, and they come home and look at those babies in bed. they don’t get to have that experience, then, then you better make it worth it. yeah. and so i’ll do whatever i can to help that entrepreneur, make it worth that sacrifice that they’ve had for their families and friends and their lives and years of their lives in some cases. how can we help them be successful? and encourage them? that’s what matters, liz?
liz farr 46:53
that’s, that’s the kind of cheerleading that everybody needs. every small business needs? yeah, no.
dawn brolin 47:02
i mean, i was at a firm, i was at a firm where, you know, the way that they taught me was if i did a tax return, i would come in the next, you know, they would review it. i come in, and there’s a big red f on the tax return. failure, figure it out. that’s how i learned i learned by trial and error, not by someone going, we’ll take a look at this. let me show you, i would have approached that tax return. no, that’s not how i learned. i embraced it. and i learned a lot from them because of that. but i don’t know if that’s how people should be treated. and i don’t know if that’s really a welcoming environment, for learning, and that kind of thing. so i just want to help people get better every day, whatever it is they’re passionate about. and i want them to live their lives to its fullest. and so we can have both and i think most people think you can’t, but you can. i think you’re proving that you can. you are the proof, you are the proof. and it’s real. no, this is not a listen, i know it’s funny, because i talked to ian vacin. and a lot ian used to be with intuits no carbon, and i talked to him a couple of times. and he’s like, bro, and, you know, it’s all great when people speak about the great things and things that are going in a great direction. but understanding those times of tribulation, like i was talking about, with that situation where i had to pull a huge loan out to cover that. things haven’t always been beautiful. and i definitely do not, do not do not at all ever say i’ve been a great leader. because i don’t i don’t believe that. i believe that i do the best i can. and i do my best that i know how, with no intent of not doing a good job. but you know, we’ve all failed. and it’s just like in softball, like anything else. i try to tell these kids, this was like my big message this year. i’m like, ladies, you are going to hit the ball three to four times out of 10. guess what that means? you’re going to fail more than you succeed. and the more you learn how to manage and handle failure, the more successful you will be overall. yes. that’s just unreal.
liz farr 49:26
yeah, and it’s just emotional management. yeah. saying, okay, i failed on my last at bat. this is a new one. yeah, let me take everything that i’ve learned. and just go for it. yeah.
dawn brolin 49:45
yeah. and we’re just the same as as you know, my clients get a notice. i made a mistake. i’ll fix it. i made the mistake. i’ll fix it. i’m sorry. i can’t go back in time. so but i’ll fix it moving forward. and i’ll learn from it. oh, man, yeah, better make sure i put the right bank account number in there. which is always, you know, your, you know, there is not that retyping thing. it’s you one shot at it, you put that direct deposit. if it’s wrong, they’re gonna wait for a check now people are not happy about that.
liz farr 50:25
yeah, we had one situation where tax preparer had two returns open and was on the phone getting the direct deposit information and put in the wrong. wrong account number. it was it was bad. it was really, really bad. yeah. and that’s what i think,
dawn brolin 50:55
to take it back to the accounting professional, whether you’re doing bookkeeping tax, doesn’t matter. that sometimes we it lives, this is always a conversation about pricing. that’s the value you provide to someone when you’re responsible for that bank account number. you’re responsible for entering things correctly making sure things are right. there’s a huge value in that the responsibility in and of itself. oh, yes. and that’s where we struggle with pricing. we’re like, but it only took me five minutes. but what responsibility do you have with that five minutes?
liz farr 51:39
and how much experience did it take to get to that? five minutes? yep. how many?
dawn brolin 51:47
i remember that i love this is one of the and i’ll never forget this, these experiences when it’s i don’t know about you, but the good old quickbooks work arounds, and a client would stump you like, they’d be like, i want to be able to do this. and you’re like, it’s not to be able to do that. and i would go up to bed at night and bring my laptop and jump in bed. my husband goes someone stumped you ha, i’m like, yeah. and i got to figure it out. i’ve got to figure it out. those experiences, though, that learning opportunity that may have taken two or three hours so that it does take five minutes now. that’s what we forget. we forget. yes.
liz farr 52:29
yes, we do. we do. now, accountants are always kind of pushed to do more and more with their time. but sometimes it’s more magical to stop doing things. so what’s one thing that you stopped doing that made a difference? you already gave me one not checking your email when you get into the office? what’s another one?
dawn brolin 53:00
so here’s a tip for this is me, this has been something that i’ve always been, i’m somebody who can get distracted easily. i don’t know about you. you know, squirrel runs by oh, liz, it’s been a great conversation. but now i’m over here looking at the squirrel. so one of the tips that i have number one, and especially because of the example you just gave me about entering the having two returns open. i am very diligent. now, it doesn’t look it right here this is i have just a few things on my desk here. but when i’m working on tax returns specifically, desk is clear. the only thing on my desk is that thing that i’m working on, that’s it. i have one return open, i don’t have anything else open, i don’t have my email is not open. this is an open that isn’t open. i have my documents and i have my tax return. the other thing that i do is i either play music, listen to a podcast, or put on netflix, or hulu. and it’s not because i’m watching or listening directly to what’s there. but it distracts all the other things that are happening around you. in college, i was an accounting major and i would have my music blasting and i don’t know if your dorm room but my dorm room was like, you know, really tiny and, and it was real small. and i had these big speakers and it was loud. and my roommates would be like knocking on the door bro and what do you what was wamsley then was like, what are you doing in there? and i’m like, i’m studying. like, you can’t be studying like i am. why is your music so loud? so why don’t have to hear you guys out here having fun? because i need to study and that similar thing happens when i work if i stay that’s just me. some people i think it’d be multitaskers i don’t think anyone really is good at being a multitasker. but i have to have that one tax return with that one thing that i’m focused on and i’m not focused on anything else can i keep my so laser focused on what i’m doing. i find for me, if i have 10, people’s tax return documents, you know, maybe in envelopes, but they’re all over here. i’m worried about what’s over here. right? not what i’m doing here. so for those people who do have issues with distractions, and losing your spot, because you know how long it takes when you get distracted, like i turn off my ringer, i don’t have notifications on my phone. that’s all i care about right now, what’s important now, which is that tax return. so that’s a tip that i for me, has really helped me be a better tax preparer. and i’m faster. because i’m only concentrating on one thing i’m not. i, i know most people think whether you’re doing bookkeeping or tax, when you pick up and put down the worst. it’s the worst. gotta figure out where was i? what was i doing now? like, oh, i gotta go through this whole p&l again, on this s corp, because i’m off by 10 bucks, and i don’t know where it loses time is not helped or productive. so that’s definitely a tip i found that has really helped me. is minimizing distractions, has been a really, really big focus for me and in trying to get things done. yeah.
liz farr 56:18
yeah. you know, in keeping one set of documents in front of you at a time, that was something i learned my first day way back when at h&r block, okay? because we’d have, we’d have clients who would drop their stuff off, and we’d have other people would come in, and we learn, you know, our boss told us somebody comes in sits down in front of you. and you’ve got a drop off return. you put all of that back in the envelope, put it away. one tax return at a time.
dawn brolin 56:55
yeah. and that’s not easy to do. sometimes, you know, you’re like, oh, wait a minute, johnny told my guys returned on. all right, let me just move this over for a minute then. and now it’s in my mind is just anarchy going on inside my head. and that’s definitely been and then also, another tip that i give people is calendar blocking. oh, yeah. calendar blocking was huge for me this year, this is the first year i really was committed to it and dedicated to it, where, you know, i don’t have a lot of appointments, most people are drop off, or they’re uploading their documents. so it’s not a lot of in person. but i’ve got a block time. for my i call them in house clients, the ones that i have their got their stuff, and i’m just working on tax returns. otherwise, tracy’s got all kinds of stuff going on for me and my calendar. and i’m like tracy block this entire day for in house tax returns. and sometimes i block and i’ll go, i’m going to work on this return for this two hour slot. and i tell her for the business returns blocked me two hours for individuals blocked me one, if it only takes me a half an hour on an individual return, i just got a half an hour of my life back. now i get to decide. now here’s another tip, when you calendar block. and let’s say you only take a half an hour to do a individual return. you got that other half hour. this is the great thing about america. you can do what you want with that half hour, you could take a walk. you don’t have to pick up the next tax return. you could go make something for lunch. you can do other things. that’s how you earn that time. hey, you know what, i got this returned on and i’m not saying you’re rushing through returns. that’s not what i mean. it’s just like, oh, wow, i got that done and a half an hour, i have a half an hour, do what i want. and then you decide what that half hour half hour is gonna look like?
liz farr 58:44
yeah, yeah. and it doesn’t have to be just getting the next thing done. right.
dawn brolin 58:52
it’s like, you know what, i should vacuum in here. i think i’m gonna vacuum because i feel better. when i come into the office. and it’s clean. i work better. like, mentally i just do. my husband knows i walk into the house. if it’s a disaster, i’m angry immediately. why am i working so hard for this house to look like this? right? so, you know, we have somebody that cleans it now that’s you know, but i really believe the environment around you. either dictates whether you’re efficient, whether you’re productive, whether you’re busy, whether you’re what, whatever your definition is going to be. and i’ve been on zoom calls. i don’t know about you, but i’m gonna zoom calls with people. but i look at what’s behind them. yours is blurred, so i can’t see what’s behind you, liz, but right. but i’ve seen people with stacks, stacks of folders. how are you not having a seizure right now? that’s what i asked him. because that to me is chaos. so those tips are the most important. no, everybody’s going to learn about how to do certain things. you know, from a technical perspective, but the environment you work in is really important.
liz farr 1:00:06
really important. it sure is. and you just, you’re giving me an incentive to work a little more on on my environment. yeah.
dawn brolin 1:00:20
because you know what, other than your bedroom, you spend more time in your office than you do anywhere else. that’s right. most people.
liz farr 1:00:30
i certainly spend a lot of time here. make it be your own. that’s right. invest in it. it’s worth it. yeah. now, we sometimes learn more from mistakes than we do from doing things correctly. yep. so so dawn, what is the most valuable mistake you ever made?
dawn brolin 1:00:55
well, i think i’ve already kind of told that story. yeah, i wasn’t, i wasn’t really. i wasn’t paying enough attention to what was important at that time. and that was getting that particular clients worked done. i learned a lot about my staff during that event, those that were willing to come and save the company, essentially, is what they were doing. i don’t think they understood that no one complained about it. they got paid very well, you know, i made sure every, every moment they were paid for that was a big learning learning curve. for me, i also have i’ve ventured off to be in partnerships with other people at times that maybe i shouldn’t have, or i didn’t do enough due diligence to see if that relationship was going to be the right fit. i’ve done some of that. i’m always very optimistic out looking at other people and feeling like you’re going to have their word and those kinds of things are going to happen. and that’s not always the case. but i think overall, i’ve mostly learned about taking that time and making sure that i’m getting the priorities done. like i i’ve definitely over the over the past year or two years, realized, like, let me give you the example of the irs audit. really being prepared ahead of time. so i was prepared for this. you know, this has been going on for a bit but i’ve been prepared for tomorrow for well over a week and a half. some things that last minute things that were making dotting i’s and crossing t’s do i have this documentation? do i have that you’re always going to have those kind of like, freak out moments that you’re like, oh my god, but i’m sitting here looking at and binders of information that this auditor is going to have everything she asked for. but i think i’ve learned better have done a better job of learning to be prepared. and i think the hair on fire way of working really tough. yeah. and i’ve learned to not over promise. and again, being a people pleaser. it’s like, you know, people oh, can you do this? can you do that? i’m such a yes, yes, yes, person that have learned to stop and say, you know what, honestly, i’m kind of booked for the next two months, i if you need that done, i can get you know, i can get it to you by end of may. but if that’s not i had a client who needs an amended return on because it didn’t give me some information. i’m like, i really will not be able to get to this till the end of may. if that’s not in your wheelhouse. feel free to find another tax preparer. it won’t hurt my feelings, but this is where i am. and they were like, you know what, we’re okay. we’re okay with that. so learning to say no, has been tough for me. but once i learned to say no, and then it was okay to say no. the the anxiety levels start to decrease tremendously when you start to get things in order. and that’s where eliminating chaos is so important. because i’ve made, i’ve made a million mistakes, liz, i could give you 700,000 examples probably of mistakes i’ve made. and i’ve learned from every single one of them and sometimes i’ve repeated those mistakes and usually it’s the bigger ones that really affect you. the real big ones and i’ve had a good handful of those. and the one thing i have to say though, is what i’ve appreciated about myself if you if i want to say and i’ve never really say that before, but if i’ve really to say anything i’ve appreciated about myself is i’ve always stood by my word. meaning always intentionally tried to fulfill have i always been successful at it, probably not. but i know i can look in the mirror at night and say you know what, i’m really really doing the best i can for everyone around me and for myself and sometimes it’s okay to say a i’m doing this for me. like sometimes that’s that’s a hard thing. so i’ve tried really tried to do that over the last couple of years. it’s like, you know what, i’m doing this and it’s okay because i want to do it for me. i bought a car, liz, i felt guilty about it. i bought a used mercedes a 2021, mercedes at 16,000 miles on it, and it’s a turbo. she goes. and i’m like, do i really need this car? no, you should do but i wanted it. and i’m like, you know what, i work really hard. a good friend of mine. he’s very successful business owner, great, great friend of mine and my husband’s. and he said, brolin, you gotta go make some memories, dude. i’m like, i make memories all the time. he goes, that’s not what i mean. you do you go to accounting conferences, and you make memories with you got lots of great friends that are your accounting friends. and i do. and you go to softball, and you’d go to softball, and you love it. and those kids love you. and you create memories with those kids. and you do that with emily, and you fly to california and kailyn, massachusetts, and you do all these things. what about those memories that you want for you? and i’m like, well, i that kind of selfish. he’s like, no, he’s like, it’s okay to do some things that you enjoy. and so that’s what i’ve been really trying to do is to go to the first game at fenway park, you know, the, you know, first home game at fenway and going on a boat on a wednesday. woohoo. imagine, on a wednesday. wow, that’s just that. i know, we got to do that. we got to do it. we deserve it.
liz farr 1:06:36
we do. we do. we do. we do. now to wrap things up, what other advice do you have for firm owners, and firm leaders who want to create better experiences for all?
dawn brolin 1:06:55
yeah, one one important thing. if you’re a firm owner, it is so critical to ask your staff what is important to them. because every one of them could be different. you can have one staff member that says i’m the breadwinner, man, i gotta make money. and i’ll do whatever it takes to make money. and that’s their focus. and there’s nothing wrong with that. you may have another person that says, yeah, i need to make money, but i really want to be able to go to my kids soccer games, or i want to make i want to be able to, in the summer, have the flexibility of working from home, because i want to be able to be there for my kids. and knowing that maybe i’m gonna work two hours in the morning and two hours in the afternoon and in between that i’m gonna be with my kids and be transparent about it. and understand giving those people that flexibility. i think that that’s really important to know that about your team, because you may not even know if you ever asked them, you may think you know, because they got a picture of their kid with a soccer ball on their desk, oh, they must want to go to soccer games. well, maybe that’s not the driver, you don’t know that unless you ask. that’s really important. creating a culture that people want to be part of your firm. that’s important, encouraging people. having that firm culture tone at the top, we always talk about usually in fraud, but the tone of the top in that, hey, listen, you know what, we’re not punching clocks anymore. and this isn’t for everybody. but we’re not punching clocks anymore. people, let’s get our work done. and also, hey, how can i help you get your job done? you know, i’m having open door policies, be able to ask questions, be able to say, hey, i need some help on this. we’ve got to also make sure we have the technology that the people need in order to be successful at their job. a lot of times, firm owners get all freaked out over price, the price of the technology. and i can respect that. i respect that 100%. but if you have a thing. so let’s use an example. if you have a certain technology where you’re when you’re onboard clients, do you even have a process? or is it different for every client? standardize the processes for for the people, so everybody knows what’s going on, all at the same time. find out what the frustrations are with your staff. you know what your frustrations are, but they may not be the same as your staff. if i’ve got a staff member who’s using one of our you know, we’re moving on from one workflow tool to another workflow tool in june. because my tracy’s like, i need to be able to do this in this practice management tool, and i just we’ve asked for it, we can’t get it. we found a better tool because i was fine with the the system we were working with, but she wasn’t. i need to solve for her pain points, too. so i think obviously, there’s so much read the book the designated motivator for accounting professionals because everything that i believe in is in that book. and it’s for free. just go to dawnbrolin.com you can get it free resources, click on you gotta give me your name and email address and then you can get a copy of the book. i put my pricing structure in there, i put engagement letters, i put all kinds of stuff in there to just i just want people to have a better life. and my way may not be the only way i know it’s not, but it’s working for me if it can work for a one to three person firm, and you’re a one to three person firm, or one, two, even five, it may work for you. but i definitely think getting your staff involved in understanding their pain points, and helping them be more successful will make you more successful. make it a great environment. yeah.
liz farr 1:10:28
yeah. and i think that having a leader like you at the top, someone like that, who really cares more about your team and the clients and serving the clients and serving your people and serving yourself? yeah, all of that is much more important than, oh, can i get that next shiny gold ring for accomplishing x four, for putting another zero at the end of my top line revenue or whatever.
dawn brolin 1:11:0
exactly. and i did want to tell you, liz, and i don’t i don’t know if you know this, but if you don’t, you’re going to know something new. so we have started a new nonprofit organization. oh, yeah. it’s called the accounting cornerstone foundation. and we today are finalizing the three people, the i think we’re interviewing six and picking three for scaling new heights. and what this foundation is for, is to help people get to in person learning. and there’s various reasons why people don’t go to input that lives. that’s why i know you, because we met each other and we’re still learning, right. and so some people it’s cost. and we understand that, for some people, it’s not cost, it’s family related matters. they got kids at home or whatever. it could be anxiety about being around other people or putting your hand out to introduce yourself to someone. there’s many reasons. and so we started this foundation. and it’s phenomenal. it’s going to so we’re picking three people for scaling, new heights will bring we’ve got other irs tax forums, we’ve got unique cpa conference, we’ve got latino tax fest, quickbooks connect, and there’s more than more people just been sending, and we want to send people to this conference. and so we’re right, we’re raising money to send people to endler in person learning. and people can either go to accountingcornerstone.org, they can apply to go to to be eligible to win a scholarship, we pay for airfare, hotel, and your ticket went on all paid. and you will meet with the with the board of the accounting cornerstone foundation, all one of at least one of us, if not all of us will be at those conferences to meet you and greet you, introduce you to people help you know what sessions to go to, and just help people grow. meet people like you, liz, just meet people and form these bonds to help improve your practice in your life. yeah. so yeah, encourage people to go check that out. we just want to help people is
liz farr 1:13:20
absolutely and i cannot say enough about going to in person learning. i mean, every conference i’ve gone to has been out of my pocket, ya know, the first quickbooks connect, i went to i was still working at a at a cpa firm. and i know that i had to go to meet people, because i was transitioning into writing, and i knew that’s where my prospects were. yeah. and i came back and told the managing partner, you’ve got to send the entire bookkeeping department to that next year. you have to, and you know, i could just see the dollar bills, you know, kind of spinning around in his head, and he just, that’s a lot of money in it. and i just thought worth it. and i just kind of said, yeah, and you’re not gonna do that i can tell you.
dawn brolin 1:14:27
and we and we encourage people, even if you’re an employee of a firm, you’re eligible. yeah. because we understand that, you know, i was at a firm who, we went to one sleeter conference. they didn’t want to pay for us to go, yeah, it was a partner and they still were like, no, you don’t need to go to that you don’t need to go to that you need to work. and so they’re in there. and that’s i’m not saying they’re wrong. i’m not saying at all that they were wrong to say that just but there’s people that are working for employers who don’t believe in it, and i think it’s i think it’s change it totally changed my career. 100%
liz farr 1:15:03
yes, absolutely. absolutely. well, dawn, i am so happy that you came on my podcast and you share you over delivered. if people would walk away from this, and not believe that they it’s possible to have your cake and eat it too, then they’re just not listening. you’re missing something.
dawn brolin 1:15:30
fairness is, is. it’s there. yeah. and people are there that care that want to help you that want to want you to have the better life that you deserve. and so open your ears and open your mind. and just even if it’s just one little nugget, one little thing that makes your day a little bit better that makes your your life a little bit better than it’s worth it. absolutely.
liz farr 1:15:57
well, i want to thank you so much, dawn. now, if listeners want to connect with you, where are the best places to find you,
dawn brolin 1:16:06
i’m all over the place, typically, you know, twitter and linkedin and on facebook, and i do have a website, dawnbrolin.com, where you can see where i’m speaking, i’m speaking at all kinds of different conferences and you know, you can join my you know, my, my, you could be part of team brolin by putting your name and get the free resources, and then you’ll get an email once a month that tells you what’s going on. and i’m always putting new free resources up there that i’m hoping can help people like my price list, people always want to know about pricing, and i throw that up there. and i have a thing called dawn’s dugout. and that just started in may. so the next episode will be in june, on june 12. and it’s basically an ask me anything you can submit submit questions, questions ahead of time. it’s just a zoom experience with a bunch of people we had about i think 38 people last month that just wanted to ask questions and get on a conversation and bounce ideas around and not that i don’t think that i know everything but boy, i’ll tell you what, i will do my darndest to answer anything that i possibly can to help people.
liz farr 1:17:12
yeah. well, helping people is the name of the game.
dawn brolin 1:17:15
you know it girl, you know it? yeah. yeah. and you’re doing that. liz, you’re doing that all day.
liz farr 1:17:21
well, thank you, dawn. thank you. that means a lot coming from you.
dawn brolin 1:17:26
well, i don’t say it if i don’t mean it. yeah. well,
liz farr 1:17:30
yeah. well, thank you again. and you have a great day.
dawn brolin 1:17:34
you too, liz. thanks so much.