tech allows small to mid-size firms to provide better cas.
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transformation talks
with bill penczak
center for accounting transformation
dustin verity admits to being cautious. he also admits to being a technophile.
in the latest episode of transformation talks, the cpa explained being conflicted between his obsession with playing with the latest technology and finding the right fit for his firm.
more: secret to success? a growth and abundance mindset | o.d. lanier: stepping into advisory | from tax to transformation | early adopters gain an edge in audit | why the future is in risk advisory | four strategies for a future ready firm
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“i’ve always been interested in technology and, and you know, efficiencies,” verity said, always wanting to know how his firm could produce more and work more efficiently. “that means less hours that we have to spend in the office ourselves.” the managing partner of verity cpas–based in honolulu–was surrounded by a team that obviously felt the same about getting out of the office and on the beautiful beaches of hawaii.
however, verity said while hope played a role, he had to be sure any new technologies would be the right fit for his firm.
“i did do due diligence,” verity said of one of his current technology service providers. “i read through all their agreements, i did all their demos, and i talked to some of the existing clients as well, and that was, you know, other cpa firms that they had partnered with. and that was so huge.”
“and so we just, you know, took that leap of faith,” verity said.
and finding the right fit allowed exponential growth.
after starting his own firm as a sole practitioner 10 years ago, verity said his firm, verity certified public accountants has more than doubled its team–and profits.
“we went from 30 to, you know, 20- to 30% margins on that work to about 40- to 60%,” he explained. “so more than just about doubled.”
how? verity said his firm made the choice to invest in technology when they decided the right technology could eliminate one salaried position and pay for itself, but it would also show the staff the firm was willing to make smart investments to allow the staff to work on projects that were more engaging and that allowed them to do the work they wanted to do.
verity said he always feels like there’s a better way to do things. “like there’s some improvements to be made constantly, like to reevaluate the process over and over just to kind of see where the kinks are, where we can troubleshoot where we can make the process better, where we can streamline,” he explained. “and, then another component i always see is just the ability to integrate technology and to make the process smoother to reduce some of the redundancies, smooth out some of the kinks and really try to get away from having a professional sitting there.”
more takeaways from dustin verity
- technology is his firm’s second-largest expense. verity uses tech as an investment to enable them to spend more time away from the office. get rid of the drudgery work and menial tasks and get your people to review the work instead and turn that into more meaningful work.
- his firm has doubled its margins on bookkeeping work by optimizing technology.
- his firm has optimized offshoring for cas and tax work.
- his firm uses a flat staffing model to offer more direct interactions between staff and partners, which has made his team more efficient. additionally, the client gets more face time, too.
- get out of being the bottleneck as the managing partner by hiring and outsourcing hr, admin and it.
- allow your team to do what they’re good at and what they want to do versus trying to force them to do tasks or manage projects they don’t want to do.
- use personality tests to help identify the skills and talents people have, as well as learn how they tend to work most efficiently.
- be part of a group or association so you can network and be able to talk to others about what they are doing, how they are overcoming obstacles, learn about their experiences with vendors or technology and build your professional network.
- it’s also important to network so you can refer work to others who won’t steal your clients, and you can return the favor.
about dustin verity, cpa, cgma
dustin verity has over twenty years of providing accounting, tax, audit, and attest services to small and middle-market businesses and organizations. dustin serves on the aicpa’s accounting and review services committee, which is a standard-setting body for accounting and review standards and is limited to seven experienced partners nationwide. dustin is an alumnus of the aicpa technical issues committee, which advocates for accounting firms and their clients in the standard-setting process with the fasb, gasb, asb, arsc, and peec.
dustin also serves as a technical writer for the aicpa and has contributed to such practice aids as, the real estate ventures and construction contractors audit risk alert, the construction contractors audit and accounting guide, the employee benefits plan audit risk alert, internal control for today’s smart businesses, and, the auditor’s report: comprehensive guidance and examples.
additionally, dustin also serves as an adjunct professor at shidler school of business, university of hawaii.
prior to forming verity cpas, dustin was a principal at pkf pacific hawaii llp and a senior manager at grant thornton llp. dustin is licensed to practice as a cpa in the states of hawaii and california and is a graduate of chapman university with a bachelor of science in accounting. dustin is also a licensed chartered global management accountant. dustin serves as treasurer & director of the board of governors of shriners honolulu hospital. dustin is a member of the aicpa and hawaii society of cpas; an executive member of the california society of cpas; and serves on the executive peer review committee for the state of hawaii.
transcript
(transcripts are made available as soon as possible. they are not fully edited for grammar or spelling.)
bill penczak 00:18
welcome to transformation talks. i’m your host bill penczak. i’m the chief transformation officer for the center for accounting transformation. during these episodes, we’ll visit with a spectrum of practitioners who are successfully navigating their own changes within their firms, their real-life examples of transformation in the accounting profession. and today with me is dustin verity. he’s the managing partner of a firm in hawaii and let him talk for a little bit. we’re going to talk about some of his journey in the firm’s journey in terms of transformation. so, dustin, tell us about your background and tell us about the firm.
dustin verity 00:50
oh, thanks, bill. sure, i actually started my career off grant thornton, in their southern california practice. and, you know, after working there for several years, you know, i really, really enjoyed it, don’t get me wrong, but just spending, you know, two to four hours a day on the 405 just, you know, can wear a person down on top of the long hours. a friend of a friend put me with a real estate developer in hawaii, and they paid for the move. and after doing that, for several years, i rejoined grant thornton, but in their honolulu office. i had a much shorter commute, which made it a lot more, a lot nicer. and then when they pulled out of the market, i eventually ended up starting my own firm and you know, initially it was just me myself. and in february, we hit 10 years, and now we’re up to about 22 full time employees. so, it’s been quite a journey.
bill penczak 01:50
i guess so! so, when we first talked, i guess about a month or more ago, you were telling me about some of the technologies that you all are already using, which i found kind of unusual for a firm your size. can you talk about why you’ve made some of those investments and some of those adoptions now, early on, versus later on, when you’re at a bigger scale?
dustin verity 02:11
i’ve always been interested in technology and, and you know, efficiencies, and to the extent that, you know, we can produce more work more efficiently, that means less hours that we have to spend in the office ourselves, right? and then we can go out and enjoy this beach and the sun and so forth here in hawaii. over the years, technology has kind of grown to our second largest expense, right under compensation. and, you know, sometimes, you know, get so interested, get so wrapped up into it, that, you know, we’ll jump in there and commit for a year or so and experiment with a tool and find that it doesn’t work. or maybe it is too big for our firm. and then we’ll move on and try something new. but there’s so many choices out there. and there’s so many new tools coming out just for the different service lines, right? tax has its own tech stack, and cas has its own and then audit. there’s a lot of exciting things happening in audit now, which is great, because that is such a labor-intensive service line. so, it’s great to see things kind of moving to greater efficiencies in that practice as well.
bill penczak 03:36
was that a tough decision to make these investments? are you personally predisposed to understanding, appreciating, and using technology yourself?
dustin verity 03:49
right, exactly. i’m always looking for new gadgets, and i like to, you know, play with the new toys as they come out and so forth. and, you know, it’s just one of those where just, you know, really i’m kind of drawn towards it. just the different tools and the different technologies out there. you know, always kind of feel like there’s a better way to do things like there’s some improvements to be made constantly like to reevaluate the process over and over just to kind of see where the kinks are, where we can troubleshoot where we can make the process better, where we can streamline. and, you know, there’s always training training training with the professionals. and then another component i always see is just the ability to integrate technology and to make the process smoother to reduce some of the redundancies, smooth out some of the kinks and really try to get away from having a professional sitting there. tying invoices out to a general ledger or an ar schedule. and then tying that to a bank statement when there’s tools out there now, that can help automate that process. and it’s entirely
bill penczak 05:08
i call that smart people doing stupid work.
dustin verity
exactly, exactly.
bill penczak
because you think about you get the people that you get working in this profession, in my opinion, are smarter than the average mayor. and, you know, especially the ones that are in there. so their cpa, it’s not a, it’s not an easy test to take. and so you put you get they graduate, and you put them in any firm puts them into a staff position, and they’re doing the kind of menial tasks that you just described, right? probably wondering, why the heck did i make this career choice. and i really appreciate the fact that firms like yours are making that investment, to be able to take that drudgery work away from people and let them do higher value work for their clients.
dustin verity 05:52
right. i mean, you know, nowadays, if you look at it, the professionals coming out of college, you know, it used to be the starting salary was maybe around 50,000, and then it you know, all of a sudden, it was 55, one now is closer to 60,000, you know, straight out of college, and to have, you know, somebody do that level, you know, being paid that level and have that level of you know, background and education and enter put on doing something that menial, you know, just didn’t make any sense to me either. and so one of the technologies that we adapted around that this really helped that process that was data snipper. and so yeah, expand, you know, a cost to 10 grand every year. but if you’re saving $50,000 and labor costs, they totally make sense, right? the cost benefit is there. and that helps out with some of those, those menial tasks like that.
bill penczak 06:52
are you doing anything on the client accounting services side from a technology standpoint?
dustin verity 06:57
oh, yeah. that we do… we do… that’s probably the more tech heavy service line on all because, you know, we, you know, we’re everything, every client needs to be an online accounting application, and we’re more of a quickbooks online and xero shop. and then from there, you know, it just depends upon what the clients need. if they need payroll, then we integrate gusto with either of those platforms. if they need help with budgeting, and managing costs, you know, we introduce them to divvy. if they need help with ap, it’s bill.com. and then we get all those systems integrated with all their bank feeds, and so forth. and then we partnered with the botkeeper to help automate that process altogether. you know, and here, again, it’s letting them do the menial bank rec tasks. and, you know, tie this to the bank statement, so forth, let them do all those real processes. and they take care of all that they let us know if there’s any one-off transactions that we can help with, we review the financials, we review the ap, you know, and build out calm, and we do all the higher-level reviews. but here again, you have professionals reviewing the work and preparing the financial statements, versus, you know, inputting an invoice in ap, or doing a bank recon, or updating somebody’s hours for payroll.
bill penczak 08:28
do you feel like there’s been–because of those investments or resulting improvement–in your retention of people? or is it hard to tell? you know, the market is kind of goofy right now, overall, but what do you think people are staying around? because they’re doing more challenging work, rather than those other labor-intensive tasks?
dustin verity 08:50
oh, absolutely. they feel like it’s a lot more worthwhile. they feel like they’re able to put their degree in the practice, and they get better value out of the work. and then we as a firm, get greater efficiency. so instead of having, like, someone out of college, you know, sit there and work on three to five accounting clients every month. now, they can supervise 15. so, it makes a huge difference. and yeah, you know, initially botkeeper looked like it was going to be, you know, probably outside of our price range. it was a hard pill to swallow. they were kind of newer at the time. it was a new service line that we were getting into. and so it was really, it was really just a leap of faith. but, you know, i did do due diligence. and so, you know, i read through all their agreements, i did all their demos, and i talked to some of the existing clients as well, and that was, you know, other cpa firms that they had partnered with. and that was so that was huge. and so we just, you know, took that leap of faith. and here we are, i think we’ve been with them about five years or so now. and it’s just been a very rewarding partnership.
bill penczak 10:16
so have you been able to track with any kind of level of detail, any kind of improvement in margin contribution as a result of some of the investments that you’re making? you know, obviously, obviously, firms look at, we want to be more efficient. and, you know, you just you said it yourself, there’s an expense that goes with that. but if you look at the before and after, are you satisfied that your overall margin has been improved? because of those technology investments?
dustin verity 10:44
oh, yeah, no doubt, we went from 30 to, you know, 20- to 30% margins on that work to about 40- to 60%. okay. so more than just about doubled.
bill penczak 11:01
that’s impressive. any other technology like on the date, you want to talk about, like on the audit side, maybe?
dustin verity 11:07
the audit side has a lot of, you know, interesting stuff for exciting stuff coming in, i already mentioned data snipper. very looking forward to the das, the dynamic audit solution, very much looking forward to that. we’re starting to do a lot more with caseware cloud right now. and i believe that’s the platform that das has built on as well. so really looking forward to that. we had previously piloted pcr for the prep constant reviews. and we really like that tool and how it made it a more interactive experience with the management, set them as up as a user on the platform and let them participate in the audit, so to speak. as well, so that they could, you know, respond to the inquiries, you know, populate it, and the audit tool or the pcr that tool, we could review it, follow up with them, and so forth, and just made that whole process a lot more streamlined. the only reason we didn’t fully adopt it at that time is we needed the full solution. we also needed the audit solution. and that wasn’t available at that time, but very much looking forward to das. and then, of course, we probably pick up pcr as well as the ebp tool at that same time.
bill penczak 12:35
i meant to ask you this earlier, what’s the split among audit, tax, and client accounting services?
dustin verity 12:42
so we initially started off as an audit shop, because that was my background at grant. and then, over the years, it’s just changed, and now it’s shifting to where it’s more tax and cas heavy. two years ago, would have been about 60% audit, and now it’s about 50/50. audit and then cas…kind of group cas and tax in the same bucket.
bill penczak 13:08
is there a great degree of overlap between the tax clients and the cas clients?
dustin verity 13:13
exactly, a lot of times, it’s small businesses that will do their accounting for and and also their tax work as well. and then we’ll do the owners tax returns, as well. so that’s why there’s a lot of overlap. so, it’s really hard to kind of segregate those out a little bit. so yeah.
bill penczak 13:29
so, you know, one of the big issues in the industry today is finding/retaining talent. in fact, the center did a little piece of research for one of the associations. and guess what, like the number one and two issues had to do with finding people or holding on to the people that they had, and the resulting cost increases that went with that. and and you’re in a comparatively small market in terms of population. and so how–my understanding is you’ve been using offshoring–how has that worked for you? and how does that alleviate some of the capacity issues? and then also, did you have to overcome, you know, some of the bias that i think a lot of firms have against offshoring, either because they’re concerned about what clients are going to think? or the cultural differences? or time differences? maybe not, in your case, the time difference so much from you sitting in hawaii, but what are some of the thought processes that you went through? and what are some of the outcomes that you’ve seen as part of that, that that part of your transformation.
dustin verity 14:31
so that was another one of those leaps of faith? and honestly, before the pandemic, we were, you know, we were one of those that were one of those firms that are very much hesitant, reluctant…were very much like, you know, “what are the clients going to say, you know, just every, you know, what you were mentioning, but i think, you know, now that you know, we’ve been through the pandemic and you look at the people working virtually you know, what difference is it really from, you know, somebody working for an east coast firm in california? how much different is that really then, you know, somebody on the mainland working for, you know, a hawaii firm. so, we, you know, and it’s kind of the…now that that box has been opened, so to speak, the line, the geographical lines are kind of blurred. and it’s all just on technology now. so, we do, we started onshoring a lot of our tax returns where it made sense. and then i’ve already talked about the accounting services and how we partner with botkeeper there. and then they have, you know, folks overseas and so forth, as well as their technology. and but yeah, i mean, i think really, it was the there was a whole paradigm shift because of the pandemic. and now, you know, i see no reason why not to embrace it. i was reading an article, it might have been in accounting today or somewhere they were talking about 30% of all tax and accounting work is is offshored. nowadays, and i just see that number getting bigger, it’s, we don’t necessarily, like i mentioned, we don’t have the folks that want to do that data entry, we don’t have the folks that want to be doing the grunt work. so, to the extent that there are those folks and different geographic locations, that can fill that void, and then have our folks do more meaningful work, then, then that’s great. you know, there are some time zone constraints here and there. but at the end of the day, we’ve been able to work with our partners to make sure that we have regularly-scheduled meetings, and everything’s lined up and so forth. and i actually see us do more offshoring in the future as well, when it comes to the tax and cas practice. the audit side is a little tricky, just because there’s judgment that goes there into it. and, you know, i know that some firms are doing it now. and i’m kind of interested to see the outcome of that. but for the most part, on the audit side, we’ve been more readily embracing technology to help fill some of that, you know, take on some of that menial work. but i would like to be able to to offshore, more audits, but it would get you know, it’s just, i don’t think we’re quite there yet. but i think within the next couple of years, especially once you know more of these online audit platforms come out, that will be a lot easier to offshore that work and so forth.
bill penczak 17:58
are you–in terms of the offshoring like you’re doing now for tax and for cas–are you using a like an aggregator or a company to find people? or do you have a separate operation setup that’s your company? or how did you structurally do that?
dustin verity 18:16
right now, we’re, we’re going through–well, i’ve already used plenty of work. right now, we’re going through cch. they have a program. and we’re really interested in you know, revisiting sureprep and gruntworx, as well in the future. we’re not to the size yet where we can set up our own firm, you know, in the philippines or india, but i know there are other larger firms that have offered, you know, us partnering with them and them helping us get set up, and so forth. so, there are those relationships that are available. but right now, we’re pretty comfortable going through, you know, the service providers that are already established and already have, like a set program in place.
bill penczak 19:08
one of the other cool things that we talked about in the prep for today’s call dealt with making the organization more flat. and i think we’ve talked about an article about firms in general companies in general, are trying to eliminate managers. and and you kind of were talking about you guys have done that already. can you talk about the decision to have a flatter staffing model and what the benefits have been to the firm and to your clients?
dustin verity 19:38
yeah, i don’t know if it was a determination that was made or just the reality of our situation. it was we had a top and then we had, you know, folks coming in straight out of college. and i guess… so there wasn’t, wasn’t necessarily any like, h”ey, we’re gonna flatten this organization.” you know, that was that was how we ended up. but it is, you know, there’s pros and cons to it, just like everything else. it’s, and, you know, the joke always is, you know, hey, we’re gonna spin, you know, we’ve been looking for that five-year audit manager for five years kind of thing, right? and so, we’ve always been in the process, like, hey, let’s, you know, develop a great internship program, look to hire from that program, and, you know, develop folks over time, and, you know, make sure they’re doing meaningful work, make sure that the, it’s, you know, a happy work environment that everybody enjoys being here. everybody has fun. and, you know, hopefully, though, they’ll stick around, you know, just treat everybody well. and that’s happened. so now, the interns have started with this, you know, maybe they started three years ago as an intern. and now, they’re senior associates, you know, and they’re all doing well, and they’re all progressing, and we’re encouraging, you know, get their cpa license and continue moving up. but, you know, as a result of having the flat organization, it’s, i think there’s a lot more hands-on that the staff has, of course, with the partners now, because there’s no, you know, do not go into a manager, and then there’s a manager review, and then they go to the partner and as a different partner review. so, the partners are much more involved. there’s less level reviews, it’s a little bit more efficient. you don’t have one manager, say to do one way, and then the partner saying it to do another, you just cut out that, that middle all together, the clients get more face time, because they’re also not dealing with a middleman. and, honestly, it results in a much more efficient audit. and, i think, a much better experience for the staff, right? of course, maybe not as nice of an experience for the partners, because now they’re, they’re training, reviewing, networking, selling client issues, and they have their hands full, a little bit more than what they normally would have. but you know, at the end of the day, we monitor that, and we try to make sure that nobody’s working more than they need to or should be, and so forth.
bill penczak 22:35
so as you’ve grown, as a firm has grown, how, how do you personally as the managing partner, juggle all the balls, so so i’ve seen other firms that grow up to be, you know, $10, $15 $20 million. and, you know, you’ve got a small partner group or a managing partner that was probably the founder, and may still be running or operating the firm, this $20 million firm, it was $30 million firm, still running the firm, like they did when, when it was a $5 million firm. and it seems like–and i’m trying not trying to lead the witness–but it seems like you’ve built some infrastructure, definitely on the technology side. but what are you doing on the firm operations side? so you’re not the bottleneck of making decisions and moving them forward? how do you do that on a day-to-day basis?
dustin verity 23:30
yeah, that was. so initially, i found i was like, the it guy, the hr guy, you know, operations guy, the guy ordering supplies, the guys doing, you know what it was, that ended up being all that i was doing. and so my client load, and i still had, you know, the other professionals in the firm to meet with and take care of, and so forth. and it was one of those where, you know, i just, i just said, i’m tired of doing this, there has to be a better way of doing it. and so then i started outsourcing the it functions. then i hired a operations, hr director. then we started even partnering and outsourcing some of our own internal accounting. and now we’ve just recently brought on the iso, an information security officer… outsource that function as well. and i have been, we’re bringing in more and more administrative operations staff, now that that are just great, you know, they’re helping out with the buildings and the client, you know, returning some of the calls and the follow-ups and so forth. and so, it’s, it’s one of those where i just, you know, i did see that was becoming the bottleneck. everybody was coming to me for everything. and that’s not necessarily what i wanted to be, i’m not gonna…i didn’t see myself as i had to control everything, i just had to put good people in the right places and trust them to do what’s in the best interest of the farm.
bill penczak 25:13
you all ever have conversations about highest and best use? so, so i’ve had i’ve had these conversations with like partner groups and you know, not, not everyone’s created equally. and some have different skills in terms of administration, some have different skills in terms of technology or technical skills, others are better in business development. do you all have those kinds of conversations about, you know, kind of beyond what you’re doing for the client, in terms of running the firm, and what your, like your personal highest and best use is, and any others, as well? and how do those conversations go?
dustin verity 25:50
so that is actually where we’re headed next. we’re, we’re looking into doing more of that because we’re, you know, it’s such a size now, where it makes a little bit more sense. you can kind of see people kind of trend toward what they’re interested in, they’ll knock it out of the park. what they’re not interested in kind of gets done when they get to it kind of a thing. and so, you can see that kind of play out without having gone through that exercise. but, you know, as we continue to grow, that’s definitely something that we’re looking at. and that’s, that’s our next hot topic with firm development and firm growth. so yeah…
bill penczak 26:33
probably the best example of that, and what i’m certainly familiar with is, is business development. where, you know, a lot of firms will say, everyone’s got to bring in business, and you know, the ones that are good at it, even if they’re not experienced in it, can knock it out of the park, and the other ones will find every reason under the sun, not to do whatever. and so, you know, i’ve kind of personally come to the conclusion that i tell clients this that, you know, if someone’s if it’s out of somebody’s wheelhouse, and why are you trying to make them do it? there are other ways that they can contribute to the firm. and it sounds trite, but it takes a village, and you’ve got some people that are good at some things, and other people are good at other things. you shouldn’t force them to do things out of their skill set or out of their comfort zone. but there’s still a place for them.
dustin verity 27:23
right? you’re absolutely right. and so, we we’ve been making like, you know, operative, administrative type assignments based on where i see people trending towards, right, like, if we have an audit director who likes to be more involved with training and qc, you know, we kind of give him more of those responsibilities. and then maybe not so much to the, you know, hey, this, can you return these sales calls, can you go meet with this potential client, and so forth. and then there’s the ones that really like to, to meet with existing clients, and really spend a lot of time with them. and, you know, we let them go run with it and let them do that. and, you know, there’s ones who like to spend a lot of time with the staff and they like, spend a lot of time on the details and the binders and so forth. and we let them go for it. and we just try to make assignments on what people appear to be the best at without necessarily having gone through a formal program.
bill penczak 28:24
yeah, it all goes back to something that was written like 30 or more years ago of the finders, the minders and the grinders. and i think that still holds true. i mean, it sounds a little bit trite now, but i think, i think that spirit is still alive and well, because people are good at certain things. and that’s okay, if you can figure out how to get the best out of each person, then collectively come together.
dustin verity 28:46
right, exactly. one thing we have started doing is like personality test, like we’ll do the disc assessments. and it’s probably been a year or so since we did the last one. so, we’re probably due to do another one, but then we’ll have everybody like, we’ll have–after they do it–have everybody share their results. and then we’ll talk about how the different personalities think and operate and, and how, you know, we can work best together and then what, what some of these folks tend to trend toward doing better than others. and you know, while some people may say well, you know, you’re just taking somebody and putting all of them in a cookie cutter type of thing or some people are totally against labels or what have you. still, i mean, there’s a little bit of truth to be had and those personality tests and you know, maybe some see it as….
bill penczak 29:37
sometimes it also opens up the whole ability to have the conversation about why–not just the ho–part of it and understanding somebody else’s perspective of whatever they are in the disc profiling. although, i remember doing it at this one firm and…on the professional staff, like 60% of the people and the professional staff were in the same buckets. and then some of the administrative people like the marketing people and hr people were kind of the outliers and a couple of the audit people were kind of in that same bucket. but i think that’s helpful because it invites that conversation about what everyone’s got different skills and different perspectives. and you got to learn how to work with that. and one size doesn’t fit all. it’s a more nuanced way of managing. but i think it’s a more effective way of managing,
dustin verity 30:30
right? no, we totally saw that as well, like the majority of the “i”s were on the audit side. and then more of the “s” and “c”s are on the tax side kind of thing. so yeah, we yeah, we totally kind of saw that, that split as well.
bill penczak 30:46
yeah, that’s interesting. so, one of the other things that we had talked about, when we’re doing the prep for today’s call was being part of an association and the working groups have allowed you to learn from others who have gone before you. can you give us an example of a transformation that was made possible through your association, your association with an association?
dustin verity 31:12
oh, sure. and not a problem. yeah, that was one of the things that that i started doing. you know, because when you’re starting your own firm, you don’t necessarily know… there’s no playbook for it, right? you kind of, you know, if you’re in a larger firm, then you know, you may know pieces and this and that, you know, you got to, you know, register with a board, you gotta get license, you got to get insurance, you know, all those things. but there’s so much that you don’t know, and i’ve always been one of those where, you know, um, let me benchmark off some, some larger peer groups, and so forth. and so right away, i got involved with the aicpa, the pcps technical issues committee. from there, i got involved with [unintelligible] and now pcps executive committee, and also along the way up in in a couple of associations, right was in [unintelligible] firm foundation, which is now aprio’s firm alliance. and, you know, always try to go to the conferences, you know, the dinners and the different events, and so forth. and just just network and hear what other folks are doing. i mean, there’s always the agenda that takes place and the meetings and, you know, the, you know, set discussions and things like that, but the real value i found was always after hours at the dinners, at the happy hours, where you can pick somebody’s brain on what they’re doing and what they’re seeing. and i’ve been fortunate to really be i have met a lot of great folks over the years that are very willing to help out and share information and so far. but as far as listing some examples, those are, it’s kind of easy, like datasnipper was one of them. audit minor was another one
bill penczak 32:54
that’s the epb product?
dustin verity 32:56
right, exactly. so that’s the evp tool for our evp audits. so those are two easy examples. botkeeper was one i had heard about, but then i bounced it off some of my peers that i knew through different associations. sureprep is another one. so, i mean, the list can go on and on. okay. when, um, you know, a lot of times are curious. and and i’ll bounce it off these other for oh, yeah, we’re using that. you know, matter of fact, we had a, like a round table at aprio’s firm alliance. and that was the main topic of discussion is like, hey, which technologies you’re using? how, how’s offshoring going? who’s doing this? who can give some other advice? and i mean, that those types of discussions are just priceless. it’s really a great sounding board, and folks can tell you about their experiences with the different technologies and, and the different trends that they’re seeing in their marketplace, as well. and it’s just a nice place to, like, share ideas. none of us are competitors. we’re all in different markets. so, it’s not like we’re giving away any sort of trade secrets or, you know, colluding together to form some sort of, you know. exactly, exactly, exactly. right. so, yeah, definitely worthwhile for any small firm out there to join and just share ideas. and then they also provide technical resources as well, if you need to do a consultation and so forth. so very beneficial.
bill penczak 34:38
on the solution side, look at some of the r&d credits, some of those specific service lines, like forensic counting, right, that smaller firms don’t necessarily have but you’ve got a resource there that’s not going to try to poach your clients
dustin verity 34:49
right. 606 issues. 842 issues. exactly. another great resource i failed to mention was the cpea, the center for plain english accounting, that’s also a great resource to reach out to. they provide consultations and trainings and so forth as part of that membership. and that’s been pretty invaluable to our audit practice, as well. we do a lot of consultations through them. and they’ll provide a written response that can be printed and put in the work papers.
bill penczak 35:22
almost like having a national desk, like the big firms do?
dustin verity 35:26
yes, sir. exactly. right.
bill penczak 35:28
that’s right. great. and they probably get back to you quicker than some of the national desks and some of the bigger firms.
dustin verity 35:34
usually within 24 hours.
bill penczak 35:37
it’s better than some of the stories i’ve heard…some of the unmentionable verbs.
dustin verity 35:41
yeah, i know. i know.
bill penczak 35:46
so final question when it comes to transforming. so we talked about people, talked about offshoring, talk about some of the technology investments that you’ve made, you’ve talked about, kind of your own personal journey as the leader of the firm. what, what, two or three pieces of advice would you have for other managing partners or trying to figure out what’s next, you know, you got your day job and trying to keep your clients happy, keep your people happy. and then you’ve also got to kind of look forward, what, what advice do you offer to other people trying to do that?
dustin verity 36:22
um, i don’t know if i’m any expert, and in any of that, but you know, i can definitely share with you what i do. and that’s, you know, it’s like, i’m constantly reading, not just the accounting today or journal of accountancy, but also wall street journal, business insider, bloomberg, and so forth. just seeing what the trends are in other markets, seeing how things are going, reading up on the latest in technology… you know, attending the conferences, being active in the associations, and really just, you know, being open-minded to new things, listening to the staff, hearing what they have to say and what their concerns are. and, you know, really just trying to stretch the capabilities of the firm and trying to get out ahead of the technology curve, so that, you know, we don’t get blindsided by it. and just trying to see how we can make everybody’s lives better at the firm through leveraging technology, and you know, offshoring. and, you know, it’s a lot more, you know, it’s a lot more meaningful work for the staff. and it’s usually a lot faster turnaround for the clients. everybody gets more time off, and it’s better margins, you know, why not?
bill penczak 37:41
you hit on all cylinders with that. well, it’s been great. so appreciate your time. you have a great story. and i think you’re very humble about it. and, you know, i love the way just kind of that discovery that you’ve gone through yourself, and it seems to be working. so congratulations for that.
dustin verity 37:59
thank you. thank you very much.