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with steven sacks
for 卡塔尔世界杯常规比赛时间
the cpa profession is entering another period of shifts in how firms will attain growth levels – the main force being the influx of private capital entering the accounting profession, according to david bergstein, cpa, citp, cgma.
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new, external investments will change the way firms are structured, operated, and financially managed, as well as granting them increased capabilities to make more strategic decisions, bergstein tells sacks for 卡塔尔世界杯常规比赛时间.
bergstein is a veteran technology executive at a number of tax and accounting software companies, including intuit, wolters kluwer, and thomson, and is now an independent author, educator, and advisor.
david bergstein’s takeaways:
- disruption is what smart business people see in a profession that is ripe for change because the traditional cpa series of audit and tax will move to the back burner. the real value of services will be in consulting services.
- cpa firms will split in two – separating the traditional services from consulting to ensure that there will be avoidance of client/service conflicts, and to make the investment more attractive.
- baby boomer partners who are a few years from retirement see the infusion of private equity as a way to reformulate partner agreement that were overdo for such a review.
- technology will continue to be a driver of how firms will change the way they operate and the greater efficiencies accrued will go for additional services that can be outsourced.
- cpas who break off and begin their own non-cpa-advertised consulting firms will be more apt to hire non-cpas because of their broader educational experience.
transcript
steven sacks and david bergstein
steven sacks
hello, i’m steven sacks, owner of solutions to results llc. today, i’m here with david bergstein. david, who is a thought leader in the accounting profession, has talked many times about how firms need to position themselves for the future. and one topic that we are going to talk about in this theme about looking at the future is this new infusion of private equity into the accounting profession. so, welcome, david, thank you for taking the time today.
david bergstein
thank you for having me today. i appreciate the opportunity to spread the gospel according to bergstein.
steven sacks
so, on the heels of eisneramper’s entree into the private equity market by towerbrook capital, is this going to open up the floodgates for private equity into the rest of the accounting profession? is this a sea change that we can expect? and how is it going to just change the overall complexion of the profession?
david bergstein
excellent questions, steve. you talk about floodgates. i don’t think just this one transaction is opening up the floodgates. the floodgates have been cranking away open for a while now. if we go back to olden days, we’ll look and we’ll see there was a top 100 firm ggk, goldstein, golub and kessler that was acquired by american express. they acquired a couple other firms, but they never got the model to work one-hundred percent. and then you had h&r block pulling in mcgladrey, and that didn’t work out. but what you see now is disruption happening all around. and it’s not just private equity firms. it’s smart business people saying the accounting profession with a traditional accounting profession is ripe for change. when we look at the model of a cpa firm or a traditional cpa firm, it’s always been tax audit, accounting. you never heard the word advisory services building up. but that’s all changing. technology. and i always get back to technology. it’s changing how things can be done. so as this disruption goes on, more non-cpa firms are coming into the space. hence, private equity. they see an opportunity. they look at — let’s just take eisneramper. and everyone has their own opinion. but it still goes back to eisneramper saw an opportunity for the partners. they wouldn’t do this deal if there wasn’t an opportunity for the owners of the business to make money. and i said, let’s split up the accounting firm. let’s put traditional audit and attest services in one company. and let’s do consulting and advisory services, and really professional services into another bag. and when private equity makes its infusion or investment, they look at what’s the return on our investment? how can we grow revenue? how can we increase equity? how can we increase the salability of this company? so, they’re not just putting money in and say do keep doing things the same way. and at the same time, i’m sure the partners of all cpa firms that are going to follow this model, they’re going to say: we can restructure our agreements. you know, you have a lot of partners that are baby boomers that are saying we got to get out eventually, or maybe we don’t have to get out. but they have to restructure their partnership agreements. this is a great opportunity to restructure any partnership agreement that’s out there. because you’re forming a new entity; a new equity relationship; and the old equity is probably going to be subject to change as to what’s going into the new business, and who’s going to be partners in it and what they’re going to get in it. so it gives cpa firms the opportunity to change what they are doing.
steven sacks
going forward what will the investors, if you will, for lack of a better descriptor, expect from their investment? are they going to sort of lead the ship, as it were, in what its expectations are for that business advisory side of the firm?
david bergstein
well, they’re coming in with an expectation that the revenue is going to grow and they’re going to see a return on their investment. but as you say, it used to be you see the numbers we see the opportunity. well, the accountants that are saying, hey, we’ll take your money and we’ll rearrange and reorganize our entities. they’re saying, yeah, we’ve been waiting for this opportunity because it gives us the ability to do that. again, it’s hard for a ship to change. you know, you take a big cruise ship, and it’s everything’s in place. everyone’s departmentalized everyone knows what they’re doing. but now all of a sudden there’s new money, new opportunities, and new means to hire non-cpas. and again, we’re both cpas. and we understand the cpa profession, and we still place a value on cpas. and that’s something that we have a high trust factor. but non-cpas, business people are coming in without the cpa certificate. they aren’t hiring cpas in some capacities. but they’re seeing the opportunities. and the opportunities that abound are there’s tons of businesses out there. millions of businesses. businesses start every day, businesses fold every day. and they fold because they don’t have the proper advice on how to be more liquid, solvent and profitable. you know, when you talk about these large accounting firms that are changing, you know, they’ve got a steady stream of revenue coming in from their audit side. they’ve got a steady stream of revenue coming in from the tax side. but all of a sudden, data analytics is coming into play. advisory services. you know, what’s cryptocurrency all about? you’re gonna hire sometimes non- accountants to explain this. technology, cybersecurity; you don’t need to be an accountant to sell the services. and or more and more businesses need protection. so, take the non-attest side of a cpa firm. you know, could be hr-related, totally, in helping businesses grow. so the opportunities are out there. and again, i might have mentioned it and maybe not. you look at pilot and jeff bezos, what he’s invested in pilot. you know, and they expect that business to grow. you look at bench being out there. you look at all these non-cpa companies coming into the space saying, hey, let us do your transactions. and now you’re getting calls. everybody wants to do outsourcing now.
steven sacks
partners or those on the partner track, have certain expectations in terms of compensation. and yet, there are performance measurements that are used to, to compensate them. how might this whole model change?
david bergstein
well, i give a good answer, steve, if somebody doesn’t produce — whatever the case may be. these deals wouldn’t be going through unless both parties saw an opportunity. so, we can be hypothetical or theoretical. or we can bring people to the plate and say, hey, cpa firm, you’re looking to either buy firms or sell yourself or grow or secure your retirement in the future. these individuals over here see an opportunity within the accounting space due to the fact that technology today says you can do a lot more than you did in the past. why don’t you two groups talk and see if there’s an opportunity for both of you? again, one’s coming with money, and the foresight to say, the accounting profession is being disrupted. it’s no longer about looking back and looking at the past and looking at financial statements and seeing what’s out there. whatever the case may be in the investment marketplace, because that’s what, you know, there’s still a big world out there, where people are in the investment marketplace. and they’re looking for security that a cpa firm provided the attest function in order to do the financial statements, according to generally accepted accounting principles, in accordance with generally accepted auditing principles. so, people are looking for that. but, let’s buy accounting firms because they’re ripe for growing right now, in this particular segment outside of the attest function. so, let’s invest in them. let’s do a deal. let’s structure a deal that the existing partners can live with. let’s let them know what their performance measurements and metrics are to make money. and a firm would not sign an agreement if it didn’t think the metrics were there for them to achieve their bonuses or buyouts. don’t just say, hey, give us the money and tell us what you want. there’s a deal that says this is what happens over the next couple of years if these performance measurements are met. and that’s what’s you know, we can look at each of these things over a period of time. we’re going to still come back to the same basic that we started with what your initial question. you know, cpas, you know, the client sees the numbers, the cpa sees the opportunity. the cpa firm, does see the opportunity, and it’s taking advantage of it because the money is becoming available. that’s why firms merge up, why firms sell out, you know, they see the opportunity. but they couldn’t take advantage of before because it didn’t exist. so, will floodgates open up? i think we’re gonna see more and more mergers of firms and more and more investors coming in and saying, main-line cpa firm that’s been here for x number of years with a partner groups in varying ages, there’s an opportunity to reinvigorate yourself now, because we see the opportunity. you see the opportunity, but you need more capital, and you want to secure your retirement, and you want to secure your profitability. let’s talk. and that’s what i see happening. at the same time, i see cpa firms, i see cpas leaving cpa firms and starting their own non-cpa outsourcing, consulting, and advisory service. i can look on the web, and i’ve done it a number of times. and i see a lot of businesses starting up with not xyz cpa firm. it’s xyz business advisors, consultants and management experts that are run by cpas that say, hey, we don’t have to do that traditional stuff. and at the same time, we’ll do the tax returns. but we’re outsourcing them and using people and technology that we see what’s there, we advise the client.
steven sacks
your final thoughts on this?
david bergstein
i think that’s the final thought. cpa firms are now saying, hey, we will go into the advisory business. and we will grow because people are going to come to us based on our reputation. let’s leave the monopoly that’s out there, continue to function as a monopoly. let’s find new things to do with testing for that, and that’ll stay out there also. but let’s take our reputation of trust and use that to help businesses grow. and at the same time, we’re going to grow because we’re going to offer a whole slew of services to these businesses, based on the fact that we have trust. we’re on right track coming out from opposite sides that the cpa world is changing, the future of accounting is changing, to do different things. so i thank you for having me.